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So don't talk about there barely being poverty just because you don't see it in the town where the privileged live. Read about the countless homeless from Sevilla who have to deal with people who find it amusing to attack them. Read about the many people who're still losing their homes all over the country, or how the rate of suicides has gone up after the crisis, and it hasn't gone back down since.
There's no Nirvana...good things happen, bad things happen, all part of the cycle of life. You talk about the things you want to talk about from your experience, I'll talk about the things I want to talk about (I've lived and worked in 12 different countries in 5 continents so I've seen plenty).
Yes I realize Spain went through a crisis as did basically the entire world...how sustainable are your systems? Right now, Spain is going up, Brazil is going down....in the future, that too will change. The dollar is up, Euro is down...I'm betting the Euro to go back up in the next 5 years.
There's no Nirvana...good things happen, bad things happen, all part of the cycle of life. You talk about the things you want to talk about from your experience, I'll talk about the things I want to talk about (I've lived and worked in 12 different countries in 5 continents so I've seen plenty).
I don't care. You were trying to sell a lie and I'm just reminding you that what you see in Marbella is not the reality of the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
Yes I realize Spain went through a crisis as did basically the entire world...how sustainable are your systems? Right now, Spain is going up, Brazil is going down....in the future, that too will change. The dollar is up, Euro is down...I'm betting the Euro to go back up in the next 5 years.
The country's improvement is a mirage. Only a few are benefiting from it, but it hasn't reached the populace, which are the ones who deserve to see it happen after all they've gone through.
We're still having to go out on the streets to protest against the consequences of cuttings for things like education. Indeed, yesterday the people from my city went on a strike because our educative system, which was awful in the first place, took such a hard hit. We won't forget everything that's been taken from us, that which they don't intend on giving back.
And currently, even though our unemployment rate is over the roof PSOE and C's, who're trying to make it to the government, are proposing reforms that will make employment even worse than it already is. That even our socialist party is happy to screw us over is disheartening.
There isn't much hope for the average person in this country, not the way things are now.
But you can't see it from your comfortable possition, leaving the country whenever you want to. There's no way you could know anything.
Spain,portugal and grecce have really low taxes,like 33%is the fiscal press ion.
Taxes in those countries are not that low. This is how much average income people pay in tax.
Germany: 49%
France: 48%
Italy: 48%
Portugal: 41%
Spain: 41%
Greece: 40%
Those 8% in lower taxes do not give them a lot extra income. If they were true low tax countries, then you might have a point.
Taxes in those countries are not that low. This is how much average income people pay in tax.
Germany: 49%
France: 48%
Italy: 48%
Portugal: 41%
Spain: 41%
Greece: 40%
Those 8% in lower taxes do not give them a lot extra income. If they were true low tax countries, then you might have a point.
You should cite the source for your figures. Such tax figures are meaningless. There are boundless of different methods to measure a tax to income ratio. I really doubt that average people pay almost 50% of their income in taxes. You should also search for figures about how much people get back in form of cash benefits. And which services are already covered by taxes.
Some more sensible figures for Germany in 2013:
Earned income: €3,193
Income from public cash benefits: €893
Household gross income: €4,086
Income taxes, social insurance contributions; €954
Household net income: €3,132
I mean Spain maybe but Greece and Portugal don't even have big land to build factories, plants...etc.
These are small countries.
I would also add corruption and crony capitalism to that.
Liechtenstein is one of the smallest countries in the world. But it has by far the highest factory density and by far the highest employment in manufacturing per capita ratio. About 14,000 employees in manufacturing, population about 37,000. Ratio about 38%. That's about 10 times the ratio in the U.S.
I mean Spain maybe but Greece and Portugal don't even have big land to build factories, plants...etc.
These are small countries.
I would also add corruption and crony capitalism to that.
That's not correct, both Portugal and Spain have ample unused land, population density is low, most people live in bigger cities, especially in Portugal while the hinterland is gradually dying out. Portugal could easily build the biggest factories in the world, but there are simply no companies to do it. In terms of logistics for instance it makes more sense to build a factory in Germany than in Portugal, which is at the very edge of Europe, so products would have to be transported farther to where demand is.
That is a silly argument as these aren't micro-states, England is similar size and had plenty of factories so it has nothing to do with size. No Western country has industry anyways.
That's so wrong. There is a whole lot of manufacturing in Western countries, just not of the old-skool type, that can still be found in China and India, with immense pollution etc.
Liechtenstein is one of the smallest countries in the world. But it has by far the highest factory density and by far the highest employment in manufacturing per capita ratio. About 14,000 employees in manufacturing, population about 37,000. Ratio about 38%. That's about 10 times the ratio in the U.S.
It's a boutique "country".
BTW if Portugal has so ample land why don't they build anything??
I mean they have great coast so they can have ports.
Great trade with Spain, France, the UK, Italy and the Americas...etc.
I see great potential actually.
I have no clue about Europe
It seems so interesting and opposite to economics.
Very interesting situation.
I assume Euro is definitely killing any competitive chance Portugal could have.
When you ask why THEY don't build anything, I wonder whom you mean. It would take companies and investors that are just not there or not willing to invest. Portugal faces the same problems as many other countries that have not been leaders for a long time. These days it is very difficult to catch up because of excessive patent laws, the immense costs of research and development, etc. That is one reason why some emerging countries rely on industrial espionage, because without it it is very difficult to catch up. After all, there is no point in producing outdated stuff...
So, a country like Portugal or Spain can't just decide to build a semiconductor factory because the know-how is missing. Our entire global system is designed to help those in the lead stay in the lead.
There are a few ports along the west coast of Portugal, most of all the big industrial port in Sines. There were plans to build a high-speed cargo train connection to Spain so that the Spaniards can ship their products to Sines and from there to the new world. But there is no money for that cargo train line at the moment. So for the time being Sines only ships what is build in southern Portugal.
You should cite the source for your figures. Such tax figures are meaningless. There are boundless of different methods to measure a tax to income ratio. I really doubt that average people pay almost 50% of their income in taxes. You should also search for figures about how much people get back in form of cash benefits. And which services are already covered by taxes.
Some more sensible figures for Germany in 2013:
Earned income: €3,193
Income from public cash benefits: €893
Household gross income: €4,086
Income taxes, social insurance contributions; €954
Household net income: €3,132
This is my source. Jämför skatter mellan länder Didn't link to it because it is not in english, but it is much easier to understand than your german link.
Most government in Europe spend 50% of GDP. They can't have 30% tax on average earners, and still get enough money. In fact average earners are often taxed more than 50%, because they need to compensate for the people who dodge and avoid taxes.
According to this tax calculator, someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany will earn €1900. However, they didn't mention employer contribution which is about €500. Hence someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany pays 47% in tax. On top of this, they will also need to pay fees and GST.
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