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I also do not understand, why it is important, most European countries are well mixed, over the centuries.
Some much more mixed than others. Iberia with moors and the balkans(including Greece) with Ottomans. As to why its important: the same reason why it would be if someone thought something about you which wasnt true
If some look like that its because Greeks and other mediterraneans made them look that way but its not the way most Italians look like. Thats why those types are a minority that come from the Greek colonized areas of Italy. Like i said before, not a coincidence. Its not hard to understand. It seems like you dont know much about Italy. And I dont understand you. Do you have a thing for mediterraneans or something? If you do then people from Greece or Spain(both people the only reason why some Italians even look mediterranean in the first place) should be more for you but why drag Italians into your fantasy
I know a lot about Italy. I have been there many times. My husband was born in Italy. I could not care less whether the colour of his skin comes from some Greek or Arabic heritage. It is not important and I cannot understand why it is so important to you. Several of our close friends are of Greek heritage and my best friend is half of Lebanese heritage. In case you want to accuse me of being a white wog, or whatever, several of my closest friends are German. That is as it is in Australia.
I am very proud that my grandchildren have a heritage which includes Italian English Scottish and German, French and Irish. I hope that my great grandchildren will also have some Asian or other non-European heritage too. Because this is what has made Australia great.
So i'm guessing you're from Australia. Spanish, Greeks, Lebanese and Serbians(and other people from the balkans) are all usually darker and less typically white looking than Italians in general. The reason for this makes sense since the Moors were in Iberia and the Ottomans were in the Balkans which made these people seem more exotic than standard white people. If Italians are called Wog along with them then thats a mistake on whoever decided to start that in the first place. Maybe that person/persons only saw Italians from Sicily or whatever the case may be and wrongly assumed thats what most Italians look like but its a mistake. Italians look no different from anglo saxons, germans, irish and other similar ethnicities that are considered typical white people. I can bet that you wouldnt be able to tell the difference
So white according to you is Blonde hair and fair skin? Those that have dark brown eyes and dark hair as well as olive skin are not white?
Not in my experience that Italians are lighter than Spanish or Serbs. But of course I have encountered lighter Italians Spanish, Serbs, Greeks and Lebanese. Italians tan quicker and easier than Anglos. They are more likely to have dark hair, olive skin and dark brown eyes than Anglos. But nothing wrong with it and I think its cool! Some Italians can pass for dark Lebanese. I also been to Italian clubs, lived and worked with Ethnic Italians. I have friends that are Italian. A lot of Italians are cool, and I don't care about the looks of them. I encounter Italian tourists as well and they are friendly.
Italians have more in common with Spain and France than Serbia or Greece.
On a general level, France, Italy and Spain are similar nations. They are
neighboring Western European nations whose cultures, languages, and social identities
share many similarities. The French, Italians, and Spanish have a similar approach to life
and value the same types of qualities. They share similar approaches to business and
education, similar family values, and similar religious values. The French, Italian and
Spanish languages, as well as several regional languages spoken within these countries,
also share many similarities because they have all descended from Latin http://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/vie...rhonors_theses
Yes. He does look very northern European. He could easily be a native of Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc. If thats what Italians usually look like then my point is right
Well many people look like him here, but many people also have black curly hair and darker skin. My point was that general appearance of Italians is very varied, so it's not like everyone looks like someone from the Sopranos. I believe Italy has more mixed DNA than most European countries due to being at the center of the mediterranean. Heck I have a friend from Calabria and she looks almost greek (almond dark eyes, dark curly hair, olive skin) whereas for instance my girlfriend is from here and has fair skin and light grey eyes with dark hair. I have many friends with light brown hair and I know several Italians with red hair.
I could not compare with Spaniards or Greeks because I haven't spent valuable time here, but generally I'd say that Spaniards seem to have wider faces and wider eyes than Italians, which often seem to have narrower faces. But that's really a very broad generalization. Greece looked more like Southern Italy, but I have met blonde greeks, as well as Turks with light brown or reddish hair.
So yeah, people all over the world are a lot more varied than this board implies.
So white according to you is Blonde hair and fair skin? Those that have dark brown eyes and dark hair as well as olive skin are not white?
Not in my experience that Italians are lighter than Spanish or Serbs. But of course I have encountered lighter Spanish, Serbs, Greeks and Lebanese as well as Italians, but Italians tan quicker and easier than Anglos. They are more likely to have dark hair, olive skin and dark brown eyes than Anglos. But nothing wrong with it and I think its cool! Some Italians can pass for dark Lebanese. I also been to Italian clubs, lived and worked with Ethnic Italians. I have friends that are Italian. A lot of Italians are cool, and I don't care about the looks of them.
You obviously cared enough to notice their tanning ability or their supposed likely hood of being more likely to have dark hair and dark eyes than northern Europeans (which i dont believe is true but ok). Whats wrong with it is that its not true. I bet most of the self proclaimed Italians you know if they are in fact really of Italian descent are either from Sicily or a very nearby region which aren't representative of typical Italians anyway for obvious reasons. But theres nothing wrong with the majority of Italians being able to go unnoticed easily in an anglo society as opposed to Iberians and Balkans people. It seems like you want Italians to be exotic for some reason. I should ask you what is white in Australia? If the term wog is meant to make it seem like they're distinct from other white people enough to be singled out by using that term, what is it about them that makes them so distinct?
On a general level, France, Italy and Spain are similar nations. They are
neighboring Western European nations whose cultures, languages, and social identities
share many similarities. The French, Italians, and Spanish have a similar approach to life
and value the same types of qualities. They share similar approaches to business and
education, similar family values, and similar religious values. The French, Italian and
Spanish languages, as well as several regional languages spoken within these countries,
also share many similarities because they have all descended from Latin http://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/vie...rhonors_theses
I disagree. People from Spain are usually considered hispanic/latino so already they're seen as different from standard white people even if they look as white as possible. As for Serbians and Greeks (and the rest of the balkans), theres lots of things about them that are alien to an anglo society in addition to their appearance. Have you heard their music? It sounds very middle eastern. Their culture is also very different and they have an eastern orthodox religion. Their history is also very different from western Europe. Italy never had moors or Ottomans like they have. So Italians dont have these issues because they're typical western Europeans in every way. Whats foreign about them really enough to single them out and call them wogs?
You obviously cared enough to notice their tanning ability or their supposed likely hood of being more likely to have dark hair and dark eyes than northern Europeans (which i dont believe is true but ok). Whats wrong with it is that its not true. I bet most of the self proclaimed Italians you know if they are in fact really of Italian descent are either from Sicily or a very nearby region which aren't representative of typical Italians anyway for obvious reasons. But theres nothing wrong with the majority of Italians being able to go unnoticed easily in an anglo society as opposed to Iberians and Balkans people. It seems like you want Italians to be exotic for some reason. I should ask you what is white in Australia? If the term wog is meant to make it seem like they're distinct from other white people enough to be singled out by using that term, what is it about them that makes them so distinct?
White in Australia is European background. Of course you can have a case where the German speaking area of Italy is Germanic, but the rest of Italy is not. Non German speaking Italy more common with France and Spain culturally than the German or Germanic speaking world.
Well I have encountered Italians that can pass for Anglo, just as I have encoutered Iberians and Balkans just that can pass Anglo as well, so nothing special about that and the people in those countries are certainly mixed. But most Italians don't look Swedish or Norwegean and it appears the OP states that most Italians look Scandinavian.
Italians that were born in Australia are more likely to consider themselves Italian than Australian even though they are Australian citizens. It not unusual to hear someone with an Aussie accent saying they are Italian.
You obviously cared enough to notice their tanning ability or their supposed likely hood of being more likely to have dark hair and dark eyes than northern Europeans (which i dont believe is true but ok). Whats wrong with it is that its not true. I bet most of the self proclaimed Italians you know if they are in fact really of Italian descent are either from Sicily or a very nearby region which aren't representative of typical Italians anyway for obvious reasons. But theres nothing wrong with the majority of Italians being able to go unnoticed easily in an anglo society as opposed to Iberians and Balkans people. It seems like you want Italians to be exotic for some reason. I should ask you what is white in Australia? If the term wog is meant to make it seem like they're distinct from other white people enough to be singled out by using that term, what is it about them that makes them so distinct?
You are possibly not familiar with Australia humour which labels people in a somewhat humorous or ironic manner. So people with red hair have for a long time been nicknamed 'blue' and so on. Anglo are called skips.(after Skippy the kangaroo) What we call the Poms would be deleted here.The new arrivals after World War 2 were from many parts of Europe and many came from countries such as Germany and Italy, with which Australia had been at war only a few years earlier. So it was inevitable that they would be noticed. Many of the distinctive things about these groups were that they generally spoke to each other in their own language, the Greeks and to a lesser extent the Italians formed and attended their own churches, they preferred to settle in the inner cities than the outer suburbs and many were at that stage not able to drive. The women and even children had pierced ears and wore earrings more than the Anglo women, they had very large social gatherings such as weddings compared to Anglos and many were somewhat olive skinned. They introduced and ate very different food which has now become part of our staple diet. In those days the children were more controlled.
However many Australians are of Irish and Welsh descent and it is common to see people of those backgrounds who are black haired and olive skinned. My Welsh friend tells me that it is believed that there was migration into Wales from Spain. My neighbours were Irish and three kids were darkish and black haired whereas the other two were red headed.
What is white in Australia? Australia had for many years a deliberate policy called the White Australia policy, introduced after Federation in 1901. I can assure you that all the Italians, Greeks Maltese and Eastern European migrants were accepted here under that policy. It was an attempt at that stage to exclude the large number of Chinese migrants who arrived after the gold rush. So white would have meant European descent in those days.
This policy was dismantled from the 1960s and racial discrimination is illegal and has been for a long time. Our large immigrant intakes are still British, Kiwi and increasingly Indian and Chinese. I do not hear people talking about people being white a great deal. I imagine it still means generic European.
Yes many of the Italian migrants were in fact from Sicily and Calabria. obviously as they were able to find work here.
Some much more mixed than others. Iberia with moors and the balkans(including Greece) with Ottomans. As to why its important: the same reason why it would be if someone thought something about you which wasnt true
False. Iberians are much more "Europeans" than Italians, at least in their DNA. R1b Western European Haplogrup:
- Wales 85%
- Ireland 80%
- Spain 75%
- England 70%
- France 65%
- Belgium 60%
- Netherlands 55%
- Portugal 55%
- Switzerland 50%
- Germany 45%
- Italy 45%
- North Italy 55%
- Central Italy 45%
- South Italy 35%
- Sicily 30%
- Sardinia 25%
. Austria 30%
- Romania 25%
- Bulgaria 25%
- Albania 20%
- Turkey 15%
- Greece 15%
- Lebanon 10%
- Lebanon 50%
- Syria 50%
- Turkey 40%
- Italy 30-35%
- North Italy 15%
- Central Italy 30%
- South Italy 40%
- Sicily 30%
- Sardinia 10%
- Tunisia 30%
- Greece 25%
- Portugal 15%
- Spain 5%
- France 5%
- Switzerland 5%
Search : Genetic map of Europe / Haplogrup map and see the most detailed map, one which includes north African and middle Eastern countries. This genetic research is made just by locals with samples of their DNA of course not immigrants. Besides your ultra nationalistic, blind and self-convencing efforts, Italy is by far the most mixed country in Western Europe, as well as the one with the most non European DNA in it's genes. I don't understand your fixation to make Italy as a white, nordic country if it's already known that Italians are mostly with olive skin. Are you racist with most of your countrymates?
According to you, an average Italian can't be differenced with a Swede, Brit or German. Turns out that if you can't do this, please go to any oculist because you could have severe eye problems... As well as Italian is probably the most Latin language ever found, which makes Italy another Latin language and MUCH more similar to Latin America than to Germanic countries. In fact, like half of Argentines are Italians.
Ottomans also conquered a good chunk of Ukraine yet they're purely slavic and very blonde and pale. The moors in Iberia were like 10 centuries ago, and most Iberians were still making marriages between themselves and having children with another Iberian Christians, not with the "conquerors" , same for the Ottomans which were in central Europe up to 2-3 centuries ago (not 10) and the Ottoman blood lineage there is very few, like the Arab one in Iberia. Get your facts straight dude. Just get with it, you can't change history, facts, dna and lineage just because you cherry pick 4 photos...
North African and Arab DNA in and neighbouring parts Europe. All credit and copyright for these maps go to: Eupedia.
I'm not sure your fixation to make Italians look like Swedes or something, you realize you're just trying to auto convince yourself while blindly lying? You even said that southern Italians are not considered Italians by most of Italy, yet say that to any person you know and you will be insulted and probably even someone will slap you for being xenophobic with your own countrymates.
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Just get with it, you can't change history, facts, dna and lineage just because you cherry pick 4 photos...
