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I'm not being stubborn at all. I'm right and you're wrong and that's really all there is too it.
LOL.
McBain, you should really take a close look at what you wrote here. Read as if someone else had written it. Someone you disagree with. I'm not stubborn; I'm just right and you're just wrong, etc., is kind of like saying something like, I AM NOT violent and aggressive, and I'll pound your face in if you say I am!
Actually, way back on page 1, before this debate between McBain and Suburban Guy even began, Kings Gambit made a really good post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Gambit
To get the best help possible, try answering a few of these questions that McBain set up as a sticky at the beginning of the Diet and Exercise Forum:
Current stats- We need to know your age, height and weight at minimum. Bodyfat percentage--if you know it--is also useful. Among other things, these stats helps us to know what your energy requirements and expenditures will be like.
Gender -
Goals - What do you hope to accomplish and in what time frame?
Current diet - Pretty self explanatory. A rough estimate of calorie intake and macros (protein/fat/carbs) is useful. If you're a beginner, as I imagine most might be, this one is not as critical.
Exercise - Tell us what (if any) exercise you're currently doing. The more specific, the better.
Supplements - Tell us what supplements you're taking/will be taking and the frequency and dosages.
Health Issues - This is another one that is important. If you have any relevant health problems or issues, please let us know. For instance, it would not be cool if you took my advice to use an ephedrine/caffeine stack but ended up in the hospital or dead because you neglected to mention that you have high blood pressure. It would be all your fault, but I'd still feel bad, so let's not do that!
KG had it right here. Regardless of how knowledgeable anyone here is--or thinks he is--we can't give really good advice without information on where the OP is now. I can see the possibility that both body-weight and iron-pumping exercises could be useful here, but I wouldn't want to give a firm answer without knowing what kind of shape the OP is in now, what her current workouts are, etc.
Another piece of information that would be useful would be how long the OP has until boot camp starts.
Consider a mix of body-weight and iron-pumping workouts
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBain II
At this point, you haven't even been able to tell us why your idea is better.
Um, actually, neither have you. You just keep saying your ideas are better because you're right, or something like that.
Anyway, here are two links from a former SEAL who now makes a living advising people on fitness for occupations in public safety fields and the military:
The first link is more about prepping for boot camp. The second describes a sequence of exercises which could be used for workouts but is also useful as a test of your readiness for basic training.
Given the debate happening in this thread, here's an interesting quote from the first link:
You have to take a running test - so run!
You have to take a swimming test - so swim!
And you have to do pushups and situps and some bootcamps have to do pullups -
so practice those calisthenics and cardio events!
Interesting how all these professional trainers members have linked to on this thread, people with experience in the service, even this former SEAL who now makes a living advising people on how to be in shape for the military, emphasize getting really good at doing the exercises you do in basic training, not pumping iron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBain II
Sorry dude, that's a bunch of nonsense.
She's going to need to be strong, right? You seem to agree on that. Well, strength is strength my friend. The strength you need to do a pushup with is the exact same strength you need to bench press, and she'll be able to build far more strength in a shorter amount of time with an intelligently programmed weight training program than she would with any of that bodyweight stuff.
This is kind of like saying that the best way and the only way to train for a marathon is to do two-mile interval runs. Intensity and endurance are different forms of conditioning. In fact, the interval work could be useful for a marathon runner, but ultimately you're going to need to put a lot of emphasis on running long distances if you're going to be in the best condition to compete in a long-distance race.
As McBain pointed out in another post, the bench press and the push-up involve the same motion (nearly the same, anyway). This does not mean they are the same exercise. Intensity and endurance--or in the case of push-ups, a kind of strength/endurance combination--are different kinds of conditioning. The same way a marathon runner needs a lot of long-distance work to be in optimal shape for a distance race, you'll ultimately train best for doing lots and lots of push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, etc., by doing these exercises, with an emphasis on increasing your reps.
Experienced lifters talk about lifting in one rep range for building maximum mass, and another for building pure strength. Different resistance brings different results.
It's the same here. You'll ultimately be conditioned best for doing lots of reps with body weight by training with lots of reps in those body-weight exercises.
However, just as I said above that a distance runner could benefit from including some interval work in his training, I do think that a good base of strength can be useful, even when the ultimate goal is to be able to do lots and lots and lots and lots of push-ups and sit-ups. Build up your strength, and then you've got the base to work from to tailor your workouts toward any goal.
In an ideal situation, meaning plenty of time to prep for boot camp, I really like Glotka's suggestion (post 19) to start with building strength, then bring in the body-weight exercises once you have a good base of strength.
That gets back to what I said in my previous post, about how we need more info from the OP, including how long she's got before she starts boot camp. She said "next year." If that's late next year, there might be time to pump iron long enough to build up some strength, then tailor workouts to the task at hand by shifting into body-weight exercises.
But it takes time to become well conditioned. Unless boot camp starts late next year, it might be a rush job for the OP to work with weights long enough to build up a really good base of strength and then shift to body-weight workouts and expect to work up to high reps in these before starting basic training. In that case, she might do better to start working on body-weight exercises now.
My gut is telling me that, without a couple of years to get into shape for this, the OP's best bet might be a mix of a very basic iron-pumping workout once a week, maybe even just every other week, while emphasizing body-weight exercises the rest of the time. And, as several people have suggested, she'd be well advised to do a lot of running.
That's my best guess based on the info that boot camp starts sometime "next year," and the guess that the OP may be just beginning to work out. That's why we need more info from the OP. None of us can really give good advice on where to go from here without some idea where the OP is now, and how long she has to get in shape for boot camp. Kings Gambit's questions in post 3, along with info on how long you've got before the start of boot camp, would really help us help you.
My gut is telling me that, without a couple of years to get into shape for this, the OP's best bet might be a mix of a very basic iron-pumping workout once a week, maybe even just every other week, while emphasizing body-weight exercises the rest of the time. And, as several people have suggested, she'd be well advised to do a lot of running.
The big issue here is it doesn't really matter how strong the OP is, just that they get through boot camp.
There is no need to do weight training at all.
McBain, you should really take a close look at what you wrote here. Read as if someone else had written it. Someone you disagree with. I'm not stubborn; I'm just right and you're just wrong, etc., is kind of like saying something like, I AM NOT violent and aggressive, and I'll pound your face in if you say I am!
Sorry, there's no other way to cut it. The advice he is giving would be far less beneficial for her then the advice I gave, and he hasn't even really contested that point when you get down to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre
Um, actually, neither have you. You just keep saying your ideas are better because you're right, or something like that.
Actually I have. Had you paid attention, I mentioned several times that the basic barbell routine I linked the OP to would have her coming in significantly stronger than this bodyweight stuff the other poster was pushing.
No one has refuted that point this far.
Quote:
Anyway, here are two links from a former SEAL who now makes a living advising people on fitness for occupations in public safety fields and the military:
The first link is more about prepping for boot camp. The second describes a sequence of exercises which could be used for workouts but is also useful as a test of your readiness for basic training.
Given the debate happening in this thread, here's an interesting quote from the first link:
You have to take a running test - so run!
You have to take a swimming test - so swim!
And you have to do pushups and situps and some bootcamps have to do pullups -
so practice those calisthenics and cardio events!
That's all fine and dandy, and certainly not terrible advice especially when directed at high school aged kids who may not have the means or access to weight training equipment. Nowhere in there did I see anything that says that bodyweight work better than the barbell work, which is what has spurned this debate.
Quote:
Interesting how all these professional trainers members have linked to on this thread, people with experience in the service, even this former SEAL who now makes a living advising people on how to be in shape for the military, emphasize getting really good at doing the exercises you do in basic training, not pumping iron.
Actually, I was the first person to cite someone who was an actual trainer (and far more importantly, having a degree in exercise physiology from one of the best schools in America). The poster who was debating me linked to a bunch of a military websites about the PT tests and one article (the Breaking Muscle link) that had some mind-numbingly bad advice in it.
Quote:
This is kind of like saying that the best way and the only way to train for a marathon is to do two-mile interval runs. Intensity and endurance are different forms of conditioning. In fact, the interval work could be useful for a marathon runner, but ultimately you're going to need to put a lot of emphasis on running long distances if you're going to be in the best condition to compete in a long-distance race.
Actually, there was a study not too long ago showing that HIIT was better for endurance than steady state cardio. I don't follow endurance stuff very closely (no interest in it at all) so I'm not sure if there were any counterpoints or such, but it's an interesting tidbit.
Quote:
As McBain pointed out in another post, the bench press and the push-up involve the same motion (nearly the same, anyway). This does not mean they are the same exercise. Intensity and endurance--or in the case of push-ups, a kind of strength/endurance combination--are different kinds of conditioning. The same way a marathon runner needs a lot of long-distance work to be in optimal shape for a distance race, you'll ultimately train best for doing lots and lots of push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, etc., by doing these exercises, with an emphasis on increasing your reps.
Experienced lifters talk about lifting in one rep range for building maximum mass, and another for building pure strength. Different resistance brings different results.
It's the same here. You'll ultimately be conditioned best for doing lots of reps with body weight by training with lots of reps in those body-weight exercises.
However, just as I said above that a distance runner could benefit from including some interval work in his training, I do think that a good base of strength can be useful, even when the ultimate goal is to be able to do lots and lots and lots and lots of push-ups and sit-ups. Build up your strength, and then you've got the base to work from to tailor your workouts toward any goal.
Pushups (like basically all weight training movements) are anaerobic, not aerobic, so endurance doesn't come into play. Muscle fatigue would be an issue though, and the easiest way to combat that is to be very strong so that the bodyweight stuff is not putting much load on the muscles, hence my recommendation for the weight training as it will make the OP stronger in a shorter amount of time than if she were to use bodyweight work.
Quote:
In an ideal situation, meaning plenty of time to prep for boot camp, I really like Glotka's suggestion (post 19) to start with building strength, then bring in the body-weight exercises once you have a good base of strength.
That gets back to what I said in my previous post, about how we need more info from the OP, including how long she's got before she starts boot camp. She said "next year." If that's late next year, there might be time to pump iron long enough to build up some strength, then tailor workouts to the task at hand by shifting into body-weight exercises.
But it takes time to become well conditioned. Unless boot camp starts late next year, it might be a rush job for the OP to work with weights long enough to build up a really good base of strength and then shift to body-weight workouts and expect to work up to high reps in these before starting basic training. In that case, she might do better to start working on body-weight exercises now.
My gut is telling me that, without a couple of years to get into shape for this, the OP's best bet might be a mix of a very basic iron-pumping workout once a week, maybe even just every other week, while emphasizing body-weight exercises the rest of the time. And, as several people have suggested, she'd be well advised to do a lot of running.
That's my best guess based on the info that boot camp starts sometime "next year," and the guess that the OP may be just beginning to work out. That's why we need more info from the OP. None of us can really give good advice on where to go from here without some idea where the OP is now, and how long she has to get in shape for boot camp. Kings Gambit's questions in post 3, along with info on how long you've got before the start of boot camp, would really help us help you.
I think the best bet, regardless of time frame, would be to do the weight training up until about a week before she is set to go to boot camp, and then sprinkle in some pushup and situp work just to facilitate the motor learning.
The big issue here is it doesn't really matter how strong the OP is, just that they get through boot camp.
There is no need to do weight training at all.
To pass the PT test she only needs to do 50 situps and 19 pushups. Stupid easy. If she gets strong, she'll be able to score higher on the PT test and bang that **** out all day during boot camp.
To pass the PT test she only needs to do 50 situps and 19 pushups. Stupid easy. If she gets strong, she'll be able to score higher on the PT test and bang that **** out all day during boot camp.
She has nothing to lose by getting strong.
Ok. Your advice is truly stupid, but it seems you won't give up.
The best bet, regardless of time frame, would be to do the weight training up until about a week before she is set to go to boot camp, and then sprinkle in some pushup and situp work just to facilitate the motor learning.
BW exercises can be used as assistence exercises in a weight program to nail the technique.
A weeks not long enough. 8's pretty standard for peaking.
The OP has probably been scared off long ago though.
I'm sure that she is intelligent enough to know she will be doing a good amount of cardio. Therefor, I came to the pretty logical conclusion that she already has that part down and simply addressed the weight training question.
The debate stemmed from the other poster's assertion that she should do bodyweight exercises that mimic what she will experience in bootcamp rather than weight training.
Lol thank you! You get it. Obviously I know that it is a lot of running. My mom and dad, bot Marines, told me all about what will happen there. I need to become stronger because I am great at running but I have terrible muscle strength. I have good leg strength and my legs are muscular compared to the rest of me but I can barely lift a huge jug of water for a minute straight.
I really want my arms and core to be fit for when I go. I know the circuit type of stuff I will be doing in boot camp does NOT require a gym to become good at. I'm already familiar with mountain climbers and all that stuff. I am a weakling though. I need to gain muscle. Preferably fast. If anyone can help me with that then cool.
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Consider a mix of body-weight and iron-pumping workouts
