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I remember it as a staple of gym class. That said, I can see why, if you're not used to the movement and are older, it might be a bad idea. And, there are other ways of stretching the hamstrings/back/whatever.
All the same...the people you're referring to, reflect the opinions of two people. They may really know their stuff, and hold that opinion, and two others who are similarly qualified hold a contrary opinion. Doing something like touching your toes to stretch doesn't quite seem like "lift with your back using a rapid twisting motion."
Personally I've never done toe touching, but I can see how some ppl should avoid it if they have bad lower backs.
TBF a lot of ppl neglect warm ups and stretching, esp the muscle bound crowd. Lol I do because I'm short for time and barely can fit in my workouts as is.
I say do them if you can without straining anything.
I can do situps if I want, but admit I rather do crunches because my back does get a bit too tight sometimes.
FWIW, most people don’t recommend stretching before a workout nowadays. I think you are more likely to injure yourself if you just launch into a stretch without warming up the body at all first. When I do classes where we have forward folds, usually the instructions are to NOT to try touching our toes early on in the class because you’re more likely to strain your lower back. Later in the class, it’s usually ok only if you can do so easily. If not, then it’s better to bend your knees a lot to lessen the strain and allow for a more gentle stretch. I have been in some classes where the forward fold will last 5 minutes, but it is usually gentle with bent knees, not an intense stretch. That said, it seems much more popular for teachers to have students lie down and use a strap to stretch the hamstrings. That keeps the back in a safe position and focuses the stretch on the hamstrings.
FWIW, most people don’t recommend stretching before a workout nowadays. I think you are more likely to injure yourself if you just launch into a stretch without warming up the body at all first. When I do classes where we have forward folds, usually the instructions are to NOT to try touching our toes early on in the class because you’re more likely to strain your lower back. Later in the class, it’s usually ok only if you can do so easily. If not, then it’s better to bend your knees a lot to lessen the strain and allow for a more gentle stretch. I have been in some classes where the forward fold will last 5 minutes, but it is usually gentle with bent knees, not an intense stretch. That said, it seems much more popular for teachers to have students lie down and use a strap to stretch the hamstrings. That keeps the back in a safe position and focuses the stretch on the hamstrings.
Agree. People need to do DYNAMIC type stretching (windmills, swing arms side to side, etc) before exercise. Stretching is for afterward. And SOFT KNEES. Do not bend or touch toes with knees locked - bad bad bad! Always ease into a stretch and don't force anything.
Having said this, I do believe in stretching. I have lots of spine issues, too much to go into here, but stretching helps me immensely. I try to do "hip openers" regularly. They prevent a lot of problems.
Agree. People need to do DYNAMIC type stretching (windmills, swing arms side to side, etc) before exercise. Stretching is for afterward. And SOFT KNEES. Do not bend or touch toes with knees locked - bad bad bad! Always ease into a stretch and don't force anything.
Having said this, I do believe in stretching. I have lots of spine issues, too much to go into here, but stretching helps me immensely. I try to do "hip openers" regularly. They prevent a lot of problems.
These two guys don't like windmills either! Aaargh. I was doing that for decades too. I don't lock my knees doing toe-touches.
No "hip openers" for me. My ortho doc said none of that, anymore. (due to my repaired joint)
I've been doing the half-squats these guys suggested and can really feel it, so continuing that.
Random suggestion… if you are bent over… to straighten your back again, push with your abs, don’t pull with your back.
A decade or more of back pain has faded away since I realized I was engaging less ideal muscles during day to day life and exercise.
Basically, any physiological movement involving bending in some way, tighten up your abs before you bend, and let the abs lower and raise you in a controlled way.
There's this physical therapy comedy duo on You-Tube (Brad and Bob) that are dead-set against toe-touching as a stretch/warm-up exercise. I've done toe-touches my whole life and feel better after doing them. Now they are verboten?
It's not just this duo---other sources say they are bad for the back. I don't get it---it seems like a normal move for the human body. See the field workers bent over. That's how I pick up stuff on the floor (squatting is hard on joint replacements).
I know "they" are always learning more about the human body, but this seems like such a basic move, compared to say, sit-ups which are also considered bad now (the full ones).
What do you think?
So with toe touch an important distinction is using it as a stretch or a test.
Toe touch as a test.
Standing toe touch can be a great test. Why? It reveals mobility restrictions, stability problems or issues with lumbopelvic rhythm. It tests far more than hamstring flexibility.
Here’s a quote from Gray Cook (one of the top physical therapists and movement specialists) on the possible causes:
"Much of the posterior chain tension people feel if they can’t touch their toes is literally putting on the brakes. This is due to a number of reasons. The rhythm of the lumbar spine and pelvis could be out of sync… they may not feel comfortable with the posterior weight shift required as the hips go back and the trunk comes forward. They may not be comfortable bending the lumbar spine along with the hips in a rhythmical fashion."
That’s why in some cases if someone learns to relax their hamstrings (and posterior chain) they’ll typically improve their toe touch.
Basically, if you can’t touch your toes chances are you are probably going to compensate when you try to do other hip-hinging exercises (such as deadlifting or RDL). Because it you can’t hinge from your hips, you are probably going to bend at the lower back instead.
Toe touch as a stretch.
Personally, I think toe touch as a stretch is limited. Think about why people do it. Typically they use it as a hamstring stretch. The problem is you have to stretch the lower back in order to get the hamstrings. And stretching the lower back is not always ideal. The lower back (the lumbar spine) is it’s supposed to be a stable joint. If you keep stretching it you are making a stable joint more mobile. In fact, lack of stability around the lumbar spine is one very common cause of lower back pain. Hence why core training is so important.
(Yes, you are capable of bending over to touch your toes. But it doesn’t mean you should do it excessively.)
If you want to stretch the hamstring you are better off stretching it directly. An example of a better stretch would be standing with one leg elevated and bowing forward. Plus, stretching it this way can expose a side to side difference way better than a regular toe touch where you are trying to stretch both at the same time.
Whatever the exercise or stretch is, we have to remember they are tools and understand why they are being done in the first place. I meet people who have done certain stretches for years but don’t know why and in many cases they are no longer helping them.
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