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Old 07-25-2023, 09:53 AM
 
6,457 posts, read 7,790,414 times
Reputation: 15975

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What do you guys think of TRT? Lots of paths for discussion and thoughts.

Is it a steroid?
Is it PED?
Should men try to avoid it?
How helpful is it for performance?
Etc.

Any thoughts from people who are on it, for it, against it, etc. All comments welcome.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:13 AM
 
9,382 posts, read 8,345,252 times
Reputation: 19173
It has been a game changer for me. I was in the normal range for my age but at my age that's low T. I had spoken to several friends who were doing it and all were saying how beneficial it had been for them with respect to improved sleep, higher libido, lower body fat, better mood, more energy and shorter recovery times after working out. I decided to try it and I'll never go back again. I'll echo all of those benefits. It's not "magic", you won't feel better after your first dose but through months of the therapy you will start feeling better and better to the point where you wonder why you did not try it sooner.

It is in no way, shape or form anything like running a cycle of steroids. These are low doses administered weekly to boost your T levels back into the normal range again.

Several studies have been done on the efficacy and safety, more or less all came to the same conclusions. Here is a synopsis of one (TTh=TRT):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451690/

Conclusion
Testosterone deficiency is associated with adverse effects on body composition, bone density, sexual function, and mood and may also increase insulin resistance, fatty liver, and cardiovascular risk factors deterioration. Numerous studies have shown the benefits of TTh overtly in hypogonadal men. There are several possible administration routes for testosterone treatment. Each approach has advantages and disadvantages, and the choice of the method of replacement will often be determined by patient preference or co-medication (e.g. no IM injections in patient under coumarin or similar anticoagulants). Although new developments are promising, it seems that, among the available treatments, only transdermal gels delivery and long-acting injectable TU have provided pharmacokinetic behaviour that gives a steady state level within the physiological range.

Hypogonadism or testosterone deficiency is a significant medical concern and a systemic disease that can impact on multiple organ systems causing morbidities and negatively affect overall quality of life with associated increases in the incidence of sexual dysfunction, metabolic syndrome, DM, obesity, depression, and others. Due to the above-mentioned advantages, TTh has clearly gained popularity among hypogonadal males as a safe and beneficial treatment, with increasing evidence of favourable effects on multiple organ systems. Combined therapy with testosterone and other treatments, such as PDE-5i, is advantageous in some cases and is valuable for patients with hypogonadism who failed PDE-5i therapy alone.


More conclusions:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...inds-rcna89229
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:20 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-fused View Post
What do you guys think of TRT? Lots of paths for discussion and thoughts.

Is it a steroid?
Is it PED?
Should men try to avoid it?
How helpful is it for performance?
Etc.

Any thoughts from people who are on it, for it, against it, etc. All comments welcome.
TRT is a hormone and steroid, when used in the context of sports, is a PED.

TRT has been shown to improve energy levels, and increase in lean body mass. However, it does lead to numerous problems including shutting down your own body's natural supply of testosterone plus increasing your risk of cardiovascular problems.

I would not take TRT unless your physiological levels are incredibly low for your age and you're over 50.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:27 AM
 
9,382 posts, read 8,345,252 times
Reputation: 19173
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
increasing your risk of cardiovascular problems.
False.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...inds-rcna89229

Birth control pills for women are also hormones but I don't see folks clamoring for women to avoid those.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:41 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
False.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...inds-rcna89229

Birth control pills for women are also hormones but I don't see folks clamoring for women to avoid those.
I wouldn't turn to NBC news for your information.

There are certainly many studies to draw from, like this one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2215025

Which agrees with you, and this one which doesn't: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28241355/

The key interpretation is all of these studies are done in older men (usually >65) with hypogonadism, who were taking physiological normal levels of testosterone.

This is quite unlike a 30 year old taking testosterone to see better results in the gym. It's clear to me that duration on TRT is a key risk factor for cardiovascular disease, something these studies don't properly address.

As for women/birth control, that's a different story. I'm just giving my opinion.

Why would you go on TRT as a young person only to have to inject it for the rest of your life just so you can getter slightly better results at the gym?
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:42 AM
 
6,457 posts, read 7,790,414 times
Reputation: 15975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
It has been a game changer for me. I was in the normal range for my age but at my age that's low T. I had spoken to several friends who were doing it and all were saying how beneficial it had been for them with respect to improved sleep, higher libido, lower body fat, better mood, more energy and shorter recovery times after working out. I decided to try it and I'll never go back again. I'll echo all of those benefits. It's not "magic", you won't feel better after your first dose but through months of the therapy you will start feeling better and better to the point where you wonder why you did not try it sooner.

It is in no way, shape or form anything like running a cycle of steroids. These are low doses administered weekly to boost your T levels back into the normal range again.

Several studies have been done on the efficacy and safety, more or less all came to the same conclusions. Here is a synopsis of one (TTh=TRT):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451690/

Conclusion
Testosterone deficiency is associated with adverse effects on body composition, bone density, sexual function, and mood and may also increase insulin resistance, fatty liver, and cardiovascular risk factors deterioration. Numerous studies have shown the benefits of TTh overtly in hypogonadal men. There are several possible administration routes for testosterone treatment. Each approach has advantages and disadvantages, and the choice of the method of replacement will often be determined by patient preference or co-medication (e.g. no IM injections in patient under coumarin or similar anticoagulants). Although new developments are promising, it seems that, among the available treatments, only transdermal gels delivery and long-acting injectable TU have provided pharmacokinetic behaviour that gives a steady state level within the physiological range.

Hypogonadism or testosterone deficiency is a significant medical concern and a systemic disease that can impact on multiple organ systems causing morbidities and negatively affect overall quality of life with associated increases in the incidence of sexual dysfunction, metabolic syndrome, DM, obesity, depression, and others. Due to the above-mentioned advantages, TTh has clearly gained popularity among hypogonadal males as a safe and beneficial treatment, with increasing evidence of favourable effects on multiple organ systems. Combined therapy with testosterone and other treatments, such as PDE-5i, is advantageous in some cases and is valuable for patients with hypogonadism who failed PDE-5i therapy alone.


More conclusions:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...inds-rcna89229
Yeah, that is a common phrase I hear a lot: “It’s been a game changer for me”

I wouldn’t mind a game changer lol. My recovery times are prolonged these days. I’ll be 50 in a few months. Definitely feel ok and look better than most guys my age but nothing like I used to and I can’t get back there because I can’t recover fast enough.

My guess is that my numbers are ok but I suppose I ought to get my levels checked to confirm and maybe get a baseline for the future. My libido has definitely decreased but it’s still there for sure. Energy is ok as long as my nutrition is on point (usually is), mood is good, sleep is good, body fat is aggressive though. Big thing I think is my recovery time, if that were better I could build more muscle, which would help with body fat.

I’ve heard good things but have always been inclined to not move towards TRT.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:45 AM
 
9,382 posts, read 8,345,252 times
Reputation: 19173
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
I wouldn't turn to NBC news for your information.

There are certainly many studies to draw from, like this one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2215025

Which agrees with you, and this one which doesn't: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28241355/

The key interpretation is all of these studies are done in older men (usually >65) with hypogonadism, who were taking physiological normal levels of testosterone.

This is quite unlike a 30 year old taking testosterone to see better results in the gym.

As for women/birth control, that's a different story. I'm just giving my opinion.

Why would you go on TRT as a young person only to have to inject it for the rest of your life just so you can getter slightly better results at the gym?
NBC is a news organization who reported on the study, they did not conduct the study. I'm sure Fox News or Breitbart probably has something similar if you only watch that sort of "news."

I'm not sure why you're taking a huge assumption that 30 year olds are going on TRT to see better results in the gym. These are prescribed medications that have to be given from a licensed physician. A gym "bro" can't just go in and pay for testosterone, there needs to be a medical reason for it.

Lots of men, old and young, suffer from low T and now there is a relatively safe solution for it. I never understand the disdain people have for such treatments without actually reading up on studies and talking to physicians. I think the stigma still exists that it's a bunch of gym bros who want to get crazy big so they start on TRT. It could not be further from the truth.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:46 AM
 
6,457 posts, read 7,790,414 times
Reputation: 15975
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaikikiWaves View Post
Why would you go on TRT as a young person only to have to inject it for the rest of your life just so you can getter slightly better results at the gym?

A little bit of vanity for me I think. I work harder in the gym and on my diet now than I ever did when I was younger. But am seeing results that are a lot less. It's bothersome. I think I'll get my levels checked at my next annual phsyical.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:49 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
NBC is a news organization who reported on the study, they did not conduct the study. I'm sure Fox News or Breitbart probably has something similar if you only watch that sort of "news."

I'm not sure why you're taking a huge assumption that 30 year olds are going on TRT to see better results in the gym. These are prescribed medications that have to be given from a licensed physician. A gym "bro" can't just go in and pay for testosterone, there needs to be a medical reason for it.

Lots of men, old and young, suffer from low T and now there is a relatively safe solution for it. I never understand the disdain people have for such treatments without actually reading up on studies and talking to physicians. I think the stigma still exists that it's a bunch of gym bros who want to get crazy big so they start on TRT. It could not be further from the truth.
It'd the US, anyone can find a doc willing to write an Rx for testosterone. I know many 20-30s on TRT, with doctor Rx. Somehow I doubt they're actually low in testosterone.
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Old 07-25-2023, 10:50 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 1,492,058 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-fused View Post
A little bit of vanity for me I think. I work harder in the gym and on my diet now than I ever did when I was younger. But am seeing results that are a lot less. It's bothersome. I think I'll get my levels checked at my next annual phsyical.
Since you're going to be 50, and with constant blood work and normal replacement levels of TRT, it's probably 'fine'. Just take note you will be injecting this stuff for the rest of your life. If you're ok with that, then have at it. Who am I to judge?
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