Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It seems the more of the body that is covered the more formal or even pious a person is seen. Even in tribal cultures covering the body with ornaments, paint, feathers, and foliage, is considered dressed up. The range of activity you are capable of while wearing nice dress clothing would also indicate how formal an occasion is.
I think we are still "ornamenting" our bodies except we are doing it with fabrics. It is best done when we are doing it for some other than our selves. Like when I was in college I picked up my girl friend at the airport wearing a tie. It made her feel very special, and I was justly rewarded for my effort later in the evening.
But why does a tie make our friend feel more special as compared to, let's say another "ornament", such a bandana. What makes a tie "nicer" other than the human constructs we've been told.
But why does a tie make our friend feel more special as compared to, let's say another "ornament", such a bandana. What makes a tie "nicer" other than the human constructs we've been told.
Because again, ties are usually made with better materials than a bandanna.
Also, ties are usually worn with other clothes that symbolize niceness. Dressing nicely in this case symbolizes time and effort, the effort made to leave an impression based on the norms of that culture. Our western culture.
And again, this stems from a historical context of formality.
A bandanna in that context means nothing. Or it would mean that you're a pirate, gang member or hipster, because that's what bandannas usually represent.
Now these rules aren't necessarily set in stone. I could see a silk bandanna being used in a formal setting or on the runway and it might take off, but it will still have the connotation of pirate or inmate garb.
Much like tattoos have changed over the past 20-30 years. They have been democratized to a certain degree.
Yet most people still aren't getting full sleeves because of how most people would perceive them.
But why does a tie make our friend feel more special as compared to, let's say another "ornament", such a bandana. What makes a tie "nicer" other than the human constructs we've been told.
Its part of our symbolic language. The tie symbolizes that this was a special occasion. We have to choose to or choose not to use this language. Its no different than shaking hands. It means nothing in and of it self other than it is a symbolic gesture perhaps to communicate to some one that we are disarming ourselves. Even though we are not walking around with spears and shields, maybe we held our weapon in our right hand.
I have friends who are bikers or musicians and I can tell when they are going on a ride or to a gig by how they ornament them selves with special attire. "Stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni"
I've been thinking about this for a long time, but every answer I have just leads to another question. Other than, "well humans just decided that suits look nicer than t-shirt" there is no hard evidence or reasoning that a sports coat and tie looks any nicer than someone's pajamas other than that's what society has decided is acceptable dress for business occasions. I mean, when you think about it, society could have said that pajamas are appropriate for business meetings and that could have easily been accepted in society and become a norm because, really, besides human's own opinions based on societal norms, there is nothing about a button-down shirt that should make it stand out over a t-shirt.
You could say that the material is nicer for a button-down, and I would retort with "what makes that material better than the cotton from a t-shirt?" and then you could respond that it was smoother, but then I could say ask, "why is smoother better?" and so on.
So, anyways, is this a legitimate debate to be had? Does ancient societal norms form our current dress code, or is there something concrete that makes a suit any "nicer" than jeans/athletic shorts and a t-shirt?
ROFL. Context and common sense should clear most of this up.
Yes, for centuries the quality of clothing garments have been a show of socio economic status and function in day to day life. Work clothes and those in labor intensive roles would not want to wear something flimsy they would seek something durable and protective in nature while seeking most comfort.
In Ancient times priests, royalty and people of the court (upper classes) wore materials of better quality (difficulty of weave, base materials, better vibrant color) or depending on culture, as the dyes themselves connoted wealth due to their cost to obtain or manufacture. Or something highly symbolic of a role - station in society to differentiate.
As the old saying goes, "in Rome do as the romans do." If everyone wore a toga - go for it. Party time!
Fast forward centuries. As the impact of industrialization, trade, commerce, mass production of 'ready to wear' clothing, and changing importance of social rituals many of these aspects (of clothing choices in outerware) begin to be subsumed by what is (standard-izeable) and comfortable.
A lot of it is practicality i.e. form follows function. Hypothetically, you can wear whatever you like to sleep or to work (dress policies followed). Ask some constructions workers how practical those pajamas are. If in an office environment where climate control and harshness is not as much of a factor well....
I'm picturing a guy in his pajamas working in a library and using the ladder or step stool to place something on high shelf and the attractive woman comes by. Will she feel comfortable asking you for help if you only have a thin layer of loose pajamas (depending on what you wear) between your crotch and her face?
Try those t shirts and jeans in your next meeting with an important client in an office environment and let me know how it goes. In most work environments it depends on how customer facing your role is. In some industries you can probably get away with losing 'conventional' dress if you are a Dilbert in a cube farm (say a call center). In other environs, you best match your customers. There's also a sociological threshold that the "uniform" of an occupation helps convey and reinforce. Studies (I can't recall where) show that when people dress down they tend to let their social graces down also, which can have bad repercussions in work / business environs.
Would you feel better if you were being defended by a lawyer in a court room that was wearing his pajamas - he's an iconoclast and is the best in his area of expertise - or would you feel you may be underserved and that he might not be taken seriously?
Of course societal norms come into play on what looks nice as perception is powerful tool. I will admit some people even dressed up don't look nice and others (a few) can look professional in more casual wear. But overall, you dress for the part / role you desire to be perceived.
For practical matter, (form follows function) sleep ware is meant to be comfortable in intimate setting your bed and generally with covers and often to be easily removed for extra curricular activities. You lay in them and roll around or don't wear them at all. At a desk you sit, as a utility worker laborer you need safety related gear, picture a guy in machine shop with turning equipment, those loose clothes might mean his losing a digit, limb or even death, etc...
It's all about context. it is why some occupations have 'uniforms'.
If bathing - go naked
If swimming - wear swim trunks (or perhaps go naked)
If working out - shorts and T shirt
If relaxing - jeans / shorts / shirt to match the climate - whatever makes you comfortable.
If attending a wedding / funeral, wear suit/ sport coat w tie optional depending on climate
If at sporting event - jeans shorts / t shirt / sweatshirt to match climate
So, If you're at a formal event - dress up (as best you can out of respect for others)
If not, dress as you please to match the occasion and climate. If you don't care go for it and let us know the results.
What makes suit 'nice' is convention and societal expectations for the role / setting in which you are participating.
How would you like it if the clerk behind the deli counter decided to wear his / her sleepware? Or the Walmart greeter wore her lingerie?
ROFL. Context and common sense should clear most of this up.
Yes, for centuries the quality of clothing garments have been a show of socio economic status and function in day to day life. Work clothes and those in labor intensive roles would not want to wear something flimsy they would seek something durable and protective in nature while seeking most comfort.
In Ancient times priests, royalty and people of the court (upper classes) wore materials of better quality (difficulty of weave, base materials, better vibrant color) or depending on culture, as the dyes themselves connoted wealth due to their cost to obtain or manufacture. Or something highly symbolic of a role - station in society to differentiate.
As the old saying goes, "in Rome do as the romans do." If everyone wore a toga - go for it. Party time!
Fast forward centuries. As the impact of industrialization, trade, commerce, mass production of 'ready to wear' clothing, and changing importance of social rituals many of these aspects (of clothing choices in outerware) begin to be subsumed by what is (standard-izeable) and comfortable.
A lot of it is practicality i.e. form follows function. Hypothetically, you can wear whatever you like to sleep or to work (dress policies followed). Ask some constructions workers how practical those pajamas are. If in an office environment where climate control and harshness is not as much of a factor well....
I'm picturing a guy in his pajamas working in a library and using the ladder or step stool to place something on high shelf and the attractive woman comes by. Will she feel comfortable asking you for help if you only have a thin layer of loose pajamas (depending on what you wear) between your crotch and her face?
Try those t shirts and jeans in your next meeting with an important client in an office environment and let me know how it goes. In most work environments it depends on how customer facing your role is. In some industries you can probably get away with losing 'conventional' dress if you are a Dilbert in a cube farm (say a call center). In other environs, you best match your customers. There's also a sociological threshold that the "uniform" of an occupation helps convey and reinforce. Studies (I can't recall where) show that when people dress down they tend to let their social graces down also, which can have bad repercussions in work / business environs.
Would you feel better if you were being defended by a lawyer in a court room that was wearing his pajamas - he's an iconoclast and is the best in his area of expertise - or would you feel you may be underserved and that he might not be taken seriously?
Of course societal norms come into play on what looks nice as perception is powerful tool. I will admit some people even dressed up don't look nice and others (a few) can look professional in more casual wear. But overall, you dress for the part / role you desire to be perceived.
For practical matter, (form follows function) sleep ware is meant to be comfortable in intimate setting your bed and generally with covers and often to be easily removed for extra curricular activities. You lay in them and roll around or don't wear them at all. At a desk you sit, as a utility worker laborer you need safety related gear, picture a guy in machine shop with turning equipment, those loose clothes might mean his losing a digit, limb or even death, etc...
It's all about context. it is why some occupations have 'uniforms'.
If bathing - go naked
If swimming - wear swim trunks (or perhaps go naked)
If working out - shorts and T shirt
If relaxing - jeans / shorts / shirt to match the climate - whatever makes you comfortable.
If attending a wedding / funeral, wear suit/ sport coat w tie optional depending on climate
If at sporting event - jeans shorts / t shirt / sweatshirt to match climate
So, If you're at a formal event - dress up (as best you can out of respect for others)
If not, dress as you please to match the occasion and climate. If you don't care go for it and let us know the results.
What makes suit 'nice' is convention and societal expectations for the role / setting in which you are participating.
How would you like it if the clerk behind the deli counter decided to wear his / her sleepware? Or the Walmart greeter wore her lingerie?
Are you jealous of Hugh Hefner? ....
That brings up an interesting fact of: function.
Most clothes are functional. Or at least work clothes. A suit functions as a symbol of formality and wealth. You would respect or at least take more seriously those in a business meeting who had nice clothes than someone with shorts and a t-shirt.
My wife has been in certain meetings where everyone thinks they are Mark Zuckerberg, and it shows to her that although they are trying to be cool, it doesn't help their cause. Especially if those wearing hoodies don't know what they are talking about.
Conversely as you mentioned construction workers wear specific clothes. Heck I wear a uniform and NEED to wear thick cargo pants and boots so that I can carry things and not hurt my feet. In this case, although I could probably wear pajamas, people would make fun of me AND I would be less efficient at my job.
I've been thinking about this for a long time, but every answer I have just leads to another question. Other than, "well humans just decided that suits look nicer than t-shirt" there is no hard evidence or reasoning that a sports coat and tie looks any nicer than someone's pajamas other than that's what society has decided is acceptable dress for business occasions. I mean, when you think about it, society could have said that pajamas are appropriate for business meetings and that could have easily been accepted in society and become a norm because, really, besides human's own opinions based on societal norms, there is nothing about a button-down shirt that should make it stand out over a t-shirt.
You could say that the material is nicer for a button-down, and I would retort with "what makes that material better than the cotton from a t-shirt?" and then you could respond that it was smoother, but then I could say ask, "why is smoother better?" and so on.
So, anyways, is this a legitimate debate to be had? Does ancient societal norms form our current dress code, or is there something concrete that makes a suit any "nicer" than jeans/athletic shorts and a t-shirt?
I think part of it has to do with the level of comfort. I of course don't wear dress clothes that I'm uncomfortable in, but at the same time, I can't wait to come home and put on a t shirt and looser PJ shorts. Clothes that are professional, usually more form-fitting and often neutral or dark in color, sometimes in fabrics like silk or polyester or wool, tend to be more uncomfortable than a loose cotton t shirt like the ones I wear to bed. Pajamas are made to be comfortable, because you sleep in them. I wouldn't want to sleep in a button down long sleeved, form fitting rather stiff dress shirt that will get wrinkled and need to be ironed. I don't want to sleep in my silky sleeveless floral print shirt I wear under my blazers. People sweat a lot in their sleep and you don't want to be wearing a non-breathable material. You don't want your clothes you wear to work and at important meetings make you want to fall asleep because they're so comfy and cozy.
It's actually an interesting question, though. I frequently think about why and how society has attached certain standards and roles to certain things. I won't get into them now, because I guess they're philosophical debates of their own, but my mind also wanders into this stuff. I also find myself thinking too long and hard about certain words and names and wondering how someone came up with that name, or why something is called that, etc. Then I say it in my head too many times and it starts to sound really strange. Funny what our minds can think about.
The time an effort it takes to make a garment makes it nice. I was admiring a friend's coat once and ask him how much did it cost. It was a full length deer skin leather coat with intricate Native American bead work from the back of the shoulders all the way down the back. He ,who was Native American, said for me it was free for you about $3500.00. That's why a taylor made suit is nicer than a suit from a department store.
thriftylefty's comment is what I was thinking but in addition to being symbolic clothing also signals many unspoken messages: social status, wealth (different than status), what group the wearer either belongs to or wants to emulate (Goth, hippie, conservative, Muslim, endless list of sometimes secret signals including specific gay preference, sexual availability or non-availability and much more.
Included in clothing is also hairstyle and jewelry (men and women both). The size of a woman's diamond ring even when she is wearing a bathing suit speaks volumes about her socio-economic class. In NYC Park Avenue women can tell where another woman lives down to the block and what her "group" is just by her clothes, hair and jewelry.
In ancient times people could be killed for dressing in colors (purple) that was reserved only for royalty. They took clothes seriously! There were laws in Venice about wearing clothing that was just too expensive.
What makes clothing nice? It's all in the eye of the beholder. What your great-aunt thinks is nice is different from what your girlfriend thinks.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
