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This is not soley a race issue. Those with no moral authority, no strong family unity are more prone to being drawn into these fascist and communist movements on the side of evil. Race is one excuse they use. Gender is yet another. The Democrat party has fully embraced this movement to gain political control. Once they have it they will tell their constituats to "FO" as they always do.
I agree with what you are saying: it is not totally race related but claiming the entire movement has to do with race and how badly some are treated is a good background for over the top liberals. I think it should be made clear, people like you, me, vcvs and others here are not referring to all liberals but there are a lot who think the way to achieve what they want is to riot, protest or get attention anyway they can, without realizing they are harming our country.
I agree with what you are saying: it is not totally race related but claiming the entire movement has to do with race and how badly some are treated is a good background for over the top liberals. I think it should be made clear, people like you, me, vcvs and others here are not referring to all liberals but there are a lot who think the way to achieve what they want is to riot, protest or get attention anyway they can, without realizing they are harming our country.
I don't think that riot, protest or get attention are all the same thing. And while there may be a very small number of people who think violence is one way to force change, the majority of those committing the violence and vandalism are not doing so as acts of protest. There are thieves that use the protests as cover for their theft (looters), and there are a lot of angry people who are embracing violence. I would point out that there is anger on both ends of the political spectrum, because the violence isn't just coming from the left.
And yes, the violence must stop. The burning, the looting, the attacks on police and the attacks on protesters and the attacks on innocent people and businesses, have to come to a stop. The conversation, though, must continue. The violence does not discredit what black people are telling us about their experiences, the discrimination they have suffered. Those stories are from American citizens, living in this nation, and they should be heard. Those experiences shouldn't happen, and I think a lot of people don't want to hear about those experiences, don't want to acknowledge that racism is still a problem in the United States. But to fix the problems, we have to know what the problems are, and that means we must listen to each other.
I don't think that riot, protest or get attention are all the same thing. And while there may be a very small number of people who think violence is one way to force change, the majority of those committing the violence and vandalism are not doing so as acts of protest. There are thieves that use the protests as cover for their theft (looters), and there are a lot of angry people who are embracing violence. I would point out that there is anger on both ends of the political spectrum, because the violence isn't just coming from the left.
And yes, the violence must stop. The burning, the looting, the attacks on police and the attacks on protesters and the attacks on innocent people and businesses, have to come to a stop. The conversation, though, must continue. The violence does not discredit what black people are telling us about their experiences, the discrimination they have suffered. Those stories are from American citizens, living in this nation, and they should be heard. Those experiences shouldn't happen, and I think a lot of people don't want to hear about those experiences, don't want to acknowledge that racism is still a problem in the United States. But to fix the problems, we have to know what the problems are, and that means we must listen to each other.
I don't think the protesters even know what the problems are: I know what they say but try asking them for details.
I don't think the protesters even know what the problems are: I know what they say but try asking them for details.
They will happily tell you what the problems are. If your position is to dismiss what they say (which is the gist of your remark), then you really aren't listening.
And I'm not saying that racism is in every interaction they have. What I am saying is that racism has been so prevalent in our society, that even though we've made progress over the past 50 years, that often we aren't even conscious of it. And I am saying that because of the prevalence, that many black people teach their children to be prepared for it. When you are always prepared for something, it's easy to see that something everywhere, even though it is not.
That's a problem that has to be part of the conversation as well.
They will happily tell you what the problems are. If your position is to dismiss what they say (which is the gist of your remark), then you really aren't listening.
And I'm not saying that racism is in every interaction they have. What I am saying is that racism has been so prevalent in our society, that even though we've made progress over the past 50 years, that often we aren't even conscious of it. And I am saying that because of the prevalence, that many black people teach their children to be prepared for it. When you are always prepared for something, it's easy to see that something everywhere, even though it is not.
That's a problem that has to be part of the conversation as well.
some of what you say is true, but a lot of the complaints are created by those who feel they are products of discrimination when they have created their one situations. Wouldn't it be better if parents taught their children, you can do anything and achieve if you want, regardless of your color, sexual orientation, or gender for starters What about the blacks who have been successful, what about the blacks that are conservatives? What about the Ben Carson's, the Larry Elders for starters?
What about those of us who have faced reverse discrimination? I know, I have been there. I could go on and on, but the topic is about talked out. Discrimination is wrong, we all know that, all the protesting and talking will not change minds, it creates even more tensions. You may be able to change some laws, but you can not change minds by screaming and raising cane or carry on with a chip on your shoulder.
some of what you say is true, but a lot of the complaints are created by those who feel they are products of discrimination when they have created their one situations. Wouldn't it be better if parents taught their children, you can do anything and achieve if you want, regardless of your color, sexual orientation, or gender for starters What about the blacks who have been successful, what about the blacks that are conservatives? What about the Ben Carson's, the Larry Elders for starters?
What about those of us who have faced reverse discrimination? I know, I have been there. I could go on and on, but the topic is about talked out. Discrimination is wrong, we all know that, all the protesting and talking will not change minds, it creates even more tensions. You may be able to change some laws, but you can not change minds by screaming and raising cane or carry on with a chip on your shoulder.
It would be wonderful if parents taught their children, you can do anything and achieve it if you want, regardless of color. It's what I was taught. But aren't parents also supposed to teach their children about reality? And if the reality is that a police stop is dangerous, and they have to behave a certain way to minimize the risks, if the reality is that the color of their skin may make it more difficult to get a home loan, then there's a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.
I've experienced reverse discrimination myself. But the topic isn't talked out. Racism and discrimination are real problems in our society. For black people it's a problem they have to deal with day to day. For you and I, it's not a problem at all. And that imbalance is what these protests are all about.
As for what about the blacks who have been successful, what about them? Success doesn't make people immune from discrimination, it just insulates them a little bit.
It would be wonderful if parents taught their children, you can do anything and achieve it if you want, regardless of color. It's what I was taught. But aren't parents also supposed to teach their children about reality? And if the reality is that a police stop is dangerous, and they have to behave a certain way to minimize the risks, if the reality is that the color of their skin may make it more difficult to get a home loan, then there's a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.
I've experienced reverse discrimination myself. But the topic isn't talked out. Racism and discrimination are real problems in our society. For black people it's a problem they have to deal with day to day. For you and I, it's not a problem at all. And that imbalance is what these protests are all about.
As for what about the blacks who have been successful, what about them? Success doesn't make people immune from discrimination, it just insulates them a little bit.
All citizens, of any race, must obey the law. They must heed to the commands of a law enforcement officer. If told to stop, they should stop. Put your hands on your head.. obey the command. Told you are under arrest? Then immediately surrender. That’s the law every American lives under. If you are innocent, you will have your day in court. If you fail to follow a lawful enforcement command, you will be met with resistance. Most every police shooting (or fatal incident) could have been prevented by simply complying with a lawful order. I’m not saying some police went and/or go too far, they do and have. I will say that we DO NOT have a systematic racial issue in this country. Not by the general population or by the police. We have some bad folks who are truly racist and we also have some (very few) racist police. But 99.9% of police officers are good honest folks protecting you and me and are not racist. No one hates a bad cop more than a good cop.
Black lives matter. So does blue lives. However the BLM organization has went off the rails with their message. Crashing restaurant’s, running people out while they try to have a meal. Canceling and threatening anyone who disagree with them. Instigating and promoting unrest and civil disobedience. Chanting “dead cops” and other hate speech. It’s their way or no way. I’m not talking about Antifa here, the BLM organization is as bad. Go to their website and “defund the police” is displayed as a first priority. We can’t “defund the police”, everyone knows that. And that’s a losing message. We can never address true racial issues in this country if an organization such as BLM continues to be the representative. Dr Martin Luther King would call them a disgrace I believe.
I refuse to feel guilty as a white person in America. I’ve done nothing wrong. I’m not racist. I do not have “white privilege” or any other likewise term canned by a liberal college professor. I refuse to be brain washed into somehow feeling I’ve played a part in “racial inequality”.
All citizens, of any race, must obey the law. They must heed to the commands of a law enforcement officer. If told to stop, they should stop. Put your hands on your head.. obey the command. Told you are under arrest? Then immediately surrender. That’s the law every American lives under. If you are innocent, you will have your day in court. If you fail to follow a lawful enforcement command, you will be met with resistance. Most every police shooting (or fatal incident) could have been prevented by simply complying with a lawful order. I’m not saying some police went and/or go too far, they do and have. I will say that we DO NOT have a systematic racial issue in this country. Not by the general population or by the police. We have some bad folks who are truly racist and we also have some (very few) racist police. But 99.9% of police officers are good honest folks protecting you and me and are not racist. No one hates a bad cop more than a good cop.
Black lives matter. So does blue lives. However the BLM organization has went off the rails with their message. Crashing restaurant’s, running people out while they try to have a meal. Canceling and threatening anyone who disagree with them. Instigating and promoting unrest and civil disobedience. Chanting “dead cops” and other hate speech. It’s their way or no way. I’m not talking about Antifa here, the BLM organization is as bad. Go to their website and “defund the police” is displayed as a first priority. We can’t “defund the police”, everyone knows that. And that’s a losing message. We can never address true racial issues in this country if an organization such as BLM continues to be the representative. Dr Martin Luther King would call them a disgrace I believe.
I refuse to feel guilty as a white person in America. I’ve done nothing wrong. I’m not racist. I do not have “white privilege” or any other likewise term canned by a liberal college professor. I refuse to be brain washed into somehow feeling I’ve played a part in “racial inequality”.
All citizens, of any race, must obey the law. They must heed to the commands of a law enforcement officer. If told to stop, they should stop. Put your hands on your head.. obey the command. Told you are under arrest? Then immediately surrender. That’s the law every American lives under. If you are innocent, you will have your day in court. If you fail to follow a lawful enforcement command, you will be met with resistance. Most every police shooting (or fatal incident) could have been prevented by simply complying with a lawful order. I’m not saying some police went and/or go too far, they do and have. I will say that we DO NOT have a systematic racial issue in this country. Not by the general population or by the police. We have some bad folks who are truly racist and we also have some (very few) racist police. But 99.9% of police officers are good honest folks protecting you and me and are not racist. No one hates a bad cop more than a good cop.
Black lives matter. So does blue lives. However the BLM organization has went off the rails with their message. Crashing restaurant’s, running people out while they try to have a meal. Canceling and threatening anyone who disagree with them. Instigating and promoting unrest and civil disobedience. Chanting “dead cops” and other hate speech. It’s their way or no way. I’m not talking about Antifa here, the BLM organization is as bad. Go to their website and “defund the police” is displayed as a first priority. We can’t “defund the police”, everyone knows that. And that’s a losing message. We can never address true racial issues in this country if an organization such as BLM continues to be the representative. Dr Martin Luther King would call them a disgrace I believe.
I refuse to feel guilty as a white person in America. I’ve done nothing wrong. I’m not racist. I do not have “white privilege” or any other likewise term canned by a liberal college professor. I refuse to be brain washed into somehow feeling I’ve played a part in “racial inequality”.
I do think that many of these incidents get out of hand when someone refuses to follow a police officer's orders. And I agree that the vast majority of police officers are good people. By the same token, I think that the vast majority of protesters are good people. While you say a very few police officers are racist or bad actors, I say that very few of the protesters are bad actors as well.
I don't support the bad actors, or the bad actions of people in general. I think good manners and mutually respectful dialogue are immensely more productive than the bad-mouthing and violence ever will be. I see both sides behaving badly. Protesters on the right and protesters on the left veer of the rails and the conversation that should be happening is abruptly over.
I don't feel guilty about being a white person. I do recognize that I have enjoyed some advantages because of being white, and I truly think all white people have enjoyed such privileges. I understand that you don't think that you have, and your perception is different than mine. I would point out that my perception is supported by statistics, but I understand that you will dismiss that because you think the statistics are distorted. We disagree, and I don't think either of us has a problem with the fact that people will disagree with us from time to time.
I know I've been shocked by just how different the experiences of people in this nation have been when interacting with the police. I have seen marked differences in police treatment of people of wealth, middle-class persons, and the poor. VERY different treatment. And I've seen very different treatment between how police treat people of different races. I realize that the police have incredibly difficult jobs, and that part of their jobs is about determining the best approach for wildly different situations. I applaud law enforcement officers for just how well they meet the challenges of their profession. They have to enter into harrowing situations like domestic violence, they put their lives on the line over and over again, to serve their communities and to keep all of us safe.
When I first heard the "defund" the police ideas, I thought it completely ridiculous. But I read up on it, and I understand that the thrust of the proposal is about how we've overburdened law enforcement. Back when we, as a society, began to defund mental institutions, we ended up making police officers responsible for dealing with the problem of mentally ill people in society. We've made police officers the front line for social problems, and for just everything that poses an emergency in people's lives. All the while we've been defunding the resources to actually deal with these problems, and giving more money to police departments to militarize their equipment and procedures. It is fair to say that we need to examine what we demand of law enforcement, and if there aren't better ways to accomplish all that we ask them to do. Surely you agree with that?
What's next? The Statue of Liberty? The Washington Monument? Might as well destroy Mt. Rushmore and any other semblance of American history while we are at it.
There'd be a revolt from the middle and even center-left if American heroes like George Washington or Abe Lincoln's monuments were destroyed. But the Confederates were traitors and massive losers. No one in America should be honoring people who fought America...and lost because they were weak.
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