New Mexico to Flagstaff - potential move

[Ashraf 8778]

Originally Posted by caphillsea77

I moved from Massachusetts to Albuquerque and I've been settling into the Southwest for about a year and half now. Having landed a job in Albuquerque quickly after relocating and living here for a little over a year I can say at that I am definitely enjoying life in the Southwest. Now that I'm growing more familiar with the region as a whole and having done a lot of exploring, it's Flagstaff that I really gravitate to mostly and think about quite a bit. I want to live in a smaller city that offers the amenities Flagstaff does and also the attractions within the area. I'm making it a goal to get to Flagstaff within a year, or perhaps Santa Fe as a plan B. I'm not worried about a job or cost of living as I've read through some local threads and I'm pretty confident I can get that all worked out.

Question is, do you feel like it's a good place to settle into? Does the college town and tourism appeal overwhelm the city with transients or do a lot of people settle seem to settle in? Or both? Perhaps share some stories from both end of those spectrums

Another question is for anyone whom has moved from NM or familiar with NM and what by your observations would be for the biggest differences are and overall feedback. If any have moved to Flagstaff from NM how do you feel about the decision you made? Most people I've talked to here in NM seem to have a very favorable opinion of the city.

It's not a great idea to change living place. Most of our citizen shifted to India in 1971. But are they happy? I think no because new people will not receive u cordially but America things are different there. That's why I love that country.

[Lizibet]

Hi caphillsea77 -

I live in Santa Fe, my dad lives in Flagstaff. My mom lived there, too, with him until she died of ovarian cancer in 2010. I think I have kind of a unique perspective, though, because my family is/was VERY active in the Flagstaff community, and I have been likewise quite active in Santa Fe. All told, we've been in our respective cities for just over 20 years each - definitely long enough to get a feel for the places and how they are trending, I hope!

Santa Fe - I love that it is SUNNY about 330 days a year, but not nearly as hot as Albuquerque (ABQ) most of the time. That said, this summer started as our decade's coldest, became our all time historical hottest, and finished our as our wettest in the past decade. (Climate change?) Santa Fe is the home of all strangeness in NM, but I mean that in a good way. It is liberal, accepting of lots of people and thought that conservative ranching and/or historically Catholic communities in the state are not. There are homeless here, but not like there are in ABQ. The small remove from I-40 seems to change the demographic of the homeless population somewhat, and I think that people are (for the most part) fairly accepting of a general duty to provide services and support to the homeless here. With state government here, there are a ton of jobs, though it can be tough to break into the state employment system. We have a large public school system (lots of jobs there, though it is not the greatest in terms of student learning...), and there are several colleges and universities that employ large numbers of people, too. The industrial park has attracted a fair amount of genetic research type businesses, and then there is the mighty tourism industry. City government is very liberal/progressive - lots of discussions of carbon footprints, plastic bag bans, electro-magnetic radiation, etc. It can be interesting, entertaining, and frustrating as all get out to see our city council try to do ANYTHING. The RailRunner light rail system has made accessing ABQ and especially the airport REALLY easy, so getting anywhere - Las Vegas, Phoenix, LA, Houston, etc. - is super cheap and simple. There are shuttles, too, but the train is way too cool, and I have taken the Amtrak from Lamy, NM to Flagstaff to visit my Dad - it's about the same time commitment as the drive and a lot more fun. Santa Fe has a great ski area with the highest base area in the lower 48 -- some years the snow is great. Some years the drought kills it. To be fair, the same is true of the Snow Bowl in Flag, but I believe that they have a more advantageous water deal, and so they can make snow even when Santa Fe cannot.

Cost of living wise the two cities are a toss up. Santa Fe's housing is ludicrous, but it's not as high as it was, and Flag's has vaulted quickly. The rental markets are too close to call, really. Neither city has a stable middle class - one is either well off or struggling (the third category, we joke, is struggling but still able to lie about it). Their food is cheaper; our gas is cheaper; their sales tax is lower; our gross receipts doesn't apply to some things their tax does... and so on. Neither city fluoridates their water and both should be ashamed about it. Santa Fe's water is EXPENSIVE (almost $7 per 1000 gallons for residential)

Flagstaff is similar to Santa Fe in terms of population and altitude. It is more conservative as a whole, I believe, based on my experiences in watching my mom in her years on planning and zoning commission and her two terms on city council. The weather pattern is different due in large part to the San Francisco Peaks - they tend to act as a moisture trap by cooling the prevailing westerlies, so Flag has Ponderosa pines, lush grasses, lots more vegetation, and TONS more snow than Santa Fe. It all has to do with where the cities sit vis-a-vis the mountains themselves. Flagstaff has EPIC traffic problems; I have to say that while Santa Fe can be frustrating on a Friday afternoon in August when there are an extra 200,000 people wandering around for any one of the markets, Flagstaff has GRIDLOCK virtually every noon and end of the workday on Milton Ave (Rte 66), and the interstate does not function as a relief route at all. The bus systems in the cities are pretty comparable and neither is great. Flag has an average of something like 100 trains a day pass through the city. (FYI - Santa Fe has an average of 6-8 RailRunner and tourism trains a day, but on weekends, that can drop to as few as 3. Amtrak does not service Santa Fe, but can be caught in Lamy, NM, or in ABQ) The Amtrak out of Flagstaff leaves at rather strange times, so it is not always the simplest way to travel eastbound, but if you want to head to the west it's OK.

Medical care- I have to give to Flagstaff. Their hospital is GREAT. A large share of Santa Fe's hospital was bought out by Christus (a TX company affiliated w/ the Catholic Church) and despite their LIES to the contrary, they have cut women's health services, reproductive health care, abortion services, etc. They will not perform an elective surgery on a female patient without performing their OWN pregnancy test in pre-op (no matter what one puts on the intake form) and they do, of course, charge the patient for this undesired, unnecessary "service". I got to Los Alamos or ABQ for care unless it is a DIRE emergency - and then, what do I care who treats me as long as I transfer as soon as stabilized? (Grrrrr... Can you tell this REALLY bothers me??? Mostly because they did it to ME and ticked off my surgeon something fierce.)

OK - this is crazy long now, but the real bottom line is where do you feel more at home? Flagstaff is (I think) younger, demographically. Santa Fe is definitely more culturally diverse within the city itself and in the interactions between the various represented groups. While Coconino County has a very large indigenous American population (Dine), very few Dine regularly interact with the (very white) Flagstaff city majority except MAYBE at NAU... or at events designed to MAKE this happen. Kinda sad, but Santa Fe CAN be like this too. My view tends to be skewed because I was a tribal judge and Indian Legal Services lawyer for a number of years, so though white, I tend to see things differently than many people ever have the chance to. If you have questions, I'm happy to try to answer BRIEFLY, I swear! :-)

[Lizibet]

Hi, Ashraf - The value of "moving about" is one of those things that varies so much from culture to culture. Even in the United States, there are areas of the country where moving is NOT considered a good idea at all.

Northern New Mexico, where I now live (at my 31st address) is one such place. There are families here who trace their ancestry back to the expedition of Don Juan de Oñate, who crossed the Rio Grande into what is now New Mexico on April 30, 1598, and claimed all land beyond the river for Spain. In the last 415 years, the descendants of these men have not moved from Oñate's original settlements in the Upper Rio Grande Valley. By contrast, in the past 400 years, no more than two generations of my ancestors have remained in the same town in which they were born.

Some stay. Some move. It makes the world more interesting; and really, if no one ever moved, how would we really learn about people from other lands and cultures in any depth, or in a meaningful way?

[chazk14]

Originally Posted by corydon

Right at mm 230 on I 40.


June 30 2013, it was about 9 or 10 am, and obviously it was melting fast.


And years ago I worked for Albertson, and ALB was really cold, at night when delivering to the stores.

thats hail

[azroadrunner]

Great responses so far. I went to school at NAU and traveled for 30 years to/stayed in Flag for professional reasons frequently from my Phoenix area home. When I was at school there in the 70s you had to create your own entertainment. A lot of development more oriented to the students has happened since, but it still appears you'd better be self-amusing. I was very outdoors oriented so it was no problem. I think i'd feel the same now (re entertainment opportunities and amenities), especially coming from the Phoenix area.

Sounds like Abe Lincoln log cabin stories, but in the early to mid 70s it was a lot colder snd snowier. High snow years were the expectation, just as if you were in Maine, and warm or dry the anomaly. That said, nights especially can get very nippy (understatement).

Overall impression? A great "central" location and natural beauty, a great outdoorsy ambiance and climate (average, all things considered), with a town that sadly doesnt match up as well as you'd think. A shame. Arizona's never been a "planning-conscious" state so you'll run into a lot of "huh?"s to my comments. That said, supporting those:

I'd ditto the comment of bad traffic... traffic seems disproportionately bad to the town population. Credit non-existant to poor planning over the years (further due to lack of council/commission support otherwise) and difficult layout overall. Growth is ultimately limited by near annual water concerns (the area is very volcanic and when there is snow and rain the moisture virtually disappears--there are very few naturally occuring bodies of water) and the fact the town is "landlocked" by National Forest...ie, limited private land (in the right spots) surrounded by NF, not dissimilar to the Durango situation.. All that's mostly for the good to limit sprawl, but does mean a lot of cramming in of those poorly planned streets, an equally mediocre land use mix and, due to limited prime development land, the aforementioned elevated real estate prices. Combine that lackluster planning (my field for 32 years elsewhere) with what appears to be zero sign ordinance (one of the worst visual experiences extant compared to the incredible natural beauty) and Flag can be a disappointment if expecting more of the pristine mountain college town it should be. Still, there's only one Flag and we love it, faults 'n all.

[peneumbra]

I have a home in Flag, and, when I'm not up here in WYO raising badgers (a demanding but rewarding career), I'm usually in Flag. And I both like and dislike what I'm seeing there.

As the city grows, there's more strain on the infrastructure - more traffic, more water demands (and not much reserve), more need for housing. The downtown commercial rentals are outrageously expensive, which is no skin off my nose, but who wants a downtown where only bars and restaurants and touristy shops exist? That's what the downtown is turning into.

And, as I pointed out in another post about northern AZ, Flagstaff is adjacent to a huge chunk of the Third World, known as the Navajo Nation. You'd have to be culturally blind not to be aware of the vast discrepancies between Us and Them, for a host of reasons that go back to the landing of the Pilgrims. It's not something you have to struggle with every day - assuming you're on the "Us" side - but the weight of it, like a massive stone pillar, is always there in the background.

Of course, there are similar issues in New Mexico, with the addition of conflicts with the hispanic indigenous folks, who've only been around for about 400 years. Personally, I try to get along with everybody; if you have to deal with badgers on a fulltime basis, people are generally pretty easy...

[solovino1]

I'm in Santa Fe after considering, researching, visiting Flagstaff. Differences by my point of view are as follows...More housing in Santa Fe for purchase, don't know about rental. Flagstaff culture seems bland in comparison to SF but you have to be into that to care, right? You have NAU and all it offers. There is tremendous open space, wilderness, etc. in both locations but northern Arizona has it all over NM for couple of reasons. First NM open space is mostly privately owned by old land grants, indian reservations, and ranches. There are just so many places you cannot go and I find that very frustrating. Wide open public spaces and the Colorado Plateau. That's what it is all about and Flagstaff has it. I lost the bet in my house about where we would go but the kicker was housing. Not enough of it and not as good quality as SF.

[trailtramp]

If I could just pick up and move from NM to Flag I'd do it in a heartbeat. Go for it!