[FlyMIA]

Well like you said there is a private funded line which will be happening. It will be a Miami-Palm Beach-Orlando line and if it is successful you can expect to see Tampa and Jacksonville added.

In Florida driving is easy. I am going to Orlando for a day/night in a few weeks. I will be driving. One of my cars gets 35mpg, I will have a second person with me. So the round trip drive will be somewhere around 20 gallons of gas including driving in the city. Even with gas at $4.00 a gallon that is $40.00 a person to get there. That is much cheaper than any train will be and it only takes about 1 hour longer. Why would I take a train to Orlando where I would then need to take buses, rent a car, or taxis all around the city because it has poor public transit? Same idea for Tampa expect Tampa would be about $55 a person. Still cheaper than a train.

The train will be good for tourist who don't have rental cars and for people who are looking at taking quick trips to Miami and the Orlando Resorts. Or people traveling solo. But once I put another passenger in my car to Orlando the cost does not add up assuming I don't care about the mileage added to the car. Which for the one I take on road trips I don't. The people are FEC are not dumb. I know there is a market but that is why regional trains like that have not been tried for before and besides for Southeast Florida-Orlando/Tampa and maybe Jacksonville I don't see them ever working anywhere else.

The distance between the big three cities is not very large. Its only 5 hours at most between Miami/Orlando/Tampa and Orlando and Tampa are very close. Besides for Miami no city has close to a decent public transit system so almost anyone who lives here drives a car and most who come for business and vacation rent a car. Miami's transit is not very good either, but compared to the rest of the state it is good. Orlando will be getting a commuter rail soon. Miami has an above ground subway system, a peoplemover system downtown and a commuter rail. Besides for the peoplemove I don't use the other two and they are not that great.

As for longer distance rail. The only place it works well in the U.S. is between Washington and Boston. Why? Because those big cities DC, Philly, NYC, Boston have good transit systems and are dense. Lots of people in those cities especially DC and NYC don't own cars, and business travelers don't need cars in those cities. This makes trains a good option to use over driving.

Originally Posted by Not_liking_FL

Just a few short years ago we were well on our way to having high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando with future plans to connect to Miami. Our Tea Party Governor decided to turn down two billion in federal funds because he read a report from "The Reason Foundation" saying it would never work. This made his base of rabid Tea Partiers very happy and the 2 billion went to more progressive states like California. And that's were we are today.

And he made the right move. We are now getting an almost completely private funded rail. Very few tax dollars involved. That is the way its suppose to work.

[hurricaneMan1992]

It would be more of a niche market, but here are some scenarios of people who may use the Miami-Orlando line:

-Individual travelers flying in to Miami or Orlando but know somebody who lives in the other city, presumably who has a car at the other end.
-Students, especially international students, who do not own a car and would pay a lot more to rent a car than those over 25.
-Students and tourists who are just not used to driving long distances on expressways.
-Business travelers going to a conference and only need to be at the hotel and/or venue, and will get reimbursed for any taxi expenses--could be cheaper or comparable to per-mile reimbursement on a personal vehicle, and you can use wifi on the train.
-People who lease their car and have a low mileage lease.
-There will probably be "ride-and-stay" packages with free transfers that make the trip plus hotel cheaper than if paid separately, especially in Miami where many hotels charge for parking. In Orlando it would be more "ride-stay-play" connected to a theme park.

Many of the above would not want to ride a bus, but would ride a decent train.

[jambo101]

I predict rail service in Florida will be a total waste of money as Florida is all about the car and people who like to drive them
The problem is there is no public transportation infrastructure set up in Florida,so while a train link from Miami to Orlando would be fine what do you do at either end of the rail line, rent a car? expensive taxi ride? a limited destination shuttle bus?
If i was living in Orlando i couldnt think of a single reason to take a train rather than my own car.,

[HarryWho?]

Most of the people who use trains in cities with train service are Commuters. They are going to work, not to theme parks.They have no need for moving around once they reach their destination. The key to a successful system is accessibility.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by HarryWho?

For the most part they're not used because they're inconvienent/pathetic. The the other side of the coin is that the more progressive you get, the higher the taxes.

Many don't find taxes an issue when one can see where the money goes, which figures as it's part of a "progressive" mindset.

[Adi from the Brunswicks]

As an additional note, what percentage of the Florida population commutes to work. I keep hearing a large percentage of the population is retirees from northern states like NY & Mass. Florida does have a lot of older people, some of who would find it very stressful to drive long distances. A train ride to the city would be a much more comfortable or convenient option for them.

Middle age adults, ask yourself this question. Would you want your 75 year old mom or dad to make a 160 mile trip on I 95 endangering their lives and others on the road. Lets face the facts, its by no means an easy ordeal especially at such a fragile age to have very quick reflexes. However, the elderly also have reasons to move around and sometimes are required to travel longer distances. In such a case trains would be helpful, which is my reason for asking this question. Similarly, college students from other states and countries would find it more convenient to go car less if given the option to live comfortably within a constrained budget.

I am not taking political sides here, just talking out of a common sense point of view. There is no doubt transit needs to be developed at a local level before pushing such plans, but everything needs a starting point. Perhaps a coalition between the cities involved and state to develop an integrated intracity and intrastate network could tackle this issue. It would be expensive, but necessary in the long run to see any significant transit developments. Else, we can just talk Florida cities already suck at local level public transit and do nothing to analyze why and improve upon it which is pointless in my opinion.

Like I said, I have never been down there. So all I know about Florida is from Google maps, movies, and the weather channel. My assumptions may be completely off. Feel free to correct them.

[HarryWho?]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

Many don't find taxes an issue when one can see where the money goes, which figures as it's part of a "progressive" mindset.

Many do. Think fixed income.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by jambo101

I predict rail service in Florida will be a total waste of money as Florida is all about the car and people who like to drive them. The problem is there is no public transportation infrastructure set up in Florida,so while a train link from Miami to Orlando would be fine what do you do at either end of the rail line, rent a car? expensive taxi ride? a limited destination shuttle bus? If I was living in Orlando I couldn't think of a single reason to take a train rather than my own car.,

All of which is why SunRail (Central Florida's boondoggle) is going to be a compete flop. The area doesn't even have a complete highway system as evidenced by the lack of a complete bypass (on the N/NW side) and the comical interchange at I-4 and 528 (East-West Expressway) to name a couple of inadequacies. Money would have been far more effectively spent taking care of those issues rather than providing a rail system so as to superficially appear as a "big boy" metro area.

[TriMT7]

It's already happening, but it's private-run, so the naysayers can just chill and let it play out:

All Aboard Florida


Original line stops in MIA-FLL-WPB-ORL. They've already purchased station locations in downtown WPB and Miami, and announced the location in Ft. Lauderdale last week.


One assumes if it works out, it would extend to Tampa eventually. A line to Tallahassee/panhandle would also be nice, and state officials have already approached All Aboard Florida about a future line to JAX.



What I'm actually most excited for is talk of developing and putting a commuter service on the eastern tracks that go through multiple downtowns in SE Florida, on existing tracks.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by jghorton

.... does one sense a teeny bit of bias here?

Actually, there is no $2 billion 'gift' from the government. The government produces nothing but, debt, and somebody else pays the $4 billion! That's $2 billion from Florida taxpayers and another $2 billion from taxpayers elsewhere.

The issue was not a lack of progressiveness, but, the fact that the cost vs the very limited route, made no economic sense, when Florida was shoring-up its fiscal strength in other areas. More "progressive" states like California lacked the fiscal sense of Florida. Take a look at which one is virtually bankrupt. I'll give you a hint, it's not Florida.

Once again, great post ^^^. In total areement.