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View Poll Results: Do you think brightline is gonna change the face of the passenger industry and the world?
Yes 14 25.45%
No 35 63.64%
Undecided 6 10.91%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-31-2017, 07:57 AM
 
Location: South Florida
5,023 posts, read 7,452,988 times
Reputation: 5476

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Problem i see with this venture is how many people actually travel from Miami to Orlando and would be willing to take a non stop train instead of their car.
This
I'd be interested to read whatever data supported the whole venture.
I do remember this whole thing was already a hot topic/debate when I moved here 22 years ago so it'd also be interesting to find out when the talks started.
Not that we don't need mass transit.

Last edited by cfbs2691; 05-31-2017 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
1,615 posts, read 2,143,456 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Problem i see with this venture is how many people actually travel from Miami to Orlando and would be willing to take a non stop train instead of their car.
I think it will appeal to tourists that want to cruise and visit Orlando. If it went farther north, I would be interested in trying it out. The line could work AFAK
the Washington to Boston corridor is profitable for Amtrak.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Sunny South Florida
8,073 posts, read 4,747,652 times
Reputation: 10084
The population density of the DC/Boston corridor is much higher than Orlando/Miami, and the movement of passengers is for a much different purpose. The northeast route has a lot of people commuting daily/weekly as part of their jobs. If this Miami/Orlando route is catering to tourists and pleasure-seekers (going to concerts, etc.), the "regulars" would likely only be using it two/three times per year.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
9,569 posts, read 5,626,412 times
Reputation: 12025
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
It would be a game changer if it was going to work.

But how can it?
How possibly can a private rail succeed when only ONE public line in the entire country turns a profit? (Acela Line)

How can Brightline compete with low cost airfare?

How can the space they use at Orlando Airport actually benefit them, being miles away from attractions and a public transit system in Orlando that has been an absolute failure and may not see weekend service in it's current iteration?


Most importantly to me though, how can all of these variables make for a business plan that works?
I honestly think Brightline was built to fail and default. I honestly can't imagine a situation where it does not.

Mass transit relies on mass subsidies in this country, in nearly every instance.
Brightline Expects Profit In First Year, Could Expand Throughout Florida

Brightline’s executive director Michael Reininger has revealed several new details of the upcoming passenger rail service between Miami and West Palm Beach in the Herald.

Brightline is a new product that will be the first of it’s kind in the U.S., according to Reininger. He expects it to become an alternative to the “broken” traffic in the area, and a model for the rest of the country.

The company forecasts over 3 million annual passengers between Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach, and over 5 million passengers when an Orlando stop is added. Brightline considers this estimate conservative, saying that there are already more passengers than that on Tri-Rail.

Roundtrip tickets between Miami and Fort Lauderdale will cost in the “general neighborhood” of $15 round trip.

The first full year of operations will be 2018, and it is expected to be profitable.
If Brightline meets the ridership numbers that they estimate, the company will “have a very robust business that will have ample opportunity to expand throughout the state.”

Source: https://www.thenextmiami.com/brightl...ghout-florida/
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
1,615 posts, read 2,143,456 times
Reputation: 1686
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielAvery View Post
The population density of the DC/Boston corridor is much higher than Orlando/Miami, and the movement of passengers is for a much different purpose. The northeast route has a lot of people commuting daily/weekly as part of their jobs. If this Miami/Orlando route is catering to tourists and pleasure-seekers (going to concerts, etc.), the "regulars" would likely only be using it two/three times per year.
Brightline won't be for commuters, there are only 3 or 4 stations on the line. I commuted by train in the DC area and if you wanted to use the Amtrak train to commute you had to buy a monthly pass and they stopped at fewer stations than the commuter rail (VRE) did. Amtrak had much nicer trains but I only took them a few times as they didn't stop at the commuter train station nearest my house.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
11,936 posts, read 13,111,286 times
Reputation: 27078
Count me in as thrilled about this.

I can now shop MIA/FLL/PBI and MCO looking for long haul airline tickets. Well, maybe not PBI but adding MCO into the mix is a huge deal.

I can get to Disney/Universal in 90 minutes!

I can go hang out with friends in WPB in under 30!

I can be having cocktails at Sugar in Miami in under 30!

I am thrilled about this!
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:27 PM
 
24,409 posts, read 26,964,842 times
Reputation: 19987
This mixed with Uber/Lyft is great... I love traveling by train in South Korea and Japan, it's so much nicer than flying. It would be great if there was tasty food at the stations or on the trains.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:47 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,077,888 times
Reputation: 4162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Brightline Expects Profit In First Year, Could Expand Throughout Florida

Brightline’s executive director Michael Reininger has revealed several new details of the upcoming passenger rail service between Miami and West Palm Beach in the Herald.

Brightline is a new product that will be the first of it’s kind in the U.S., according to Reininger. He expects it to become an alternative to the “broken” traffic in the area, and a model for the rest of the country.

The company forecasts over 3 million annual passengers between Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach, and over 5 million passengers when an Orlando stop is added. Brightline considers this estimate conservative, saying that there are already more passengers than that on Tri-Rail.

Roundtrip tickets between Miami and Fort Lauderdale will cost in the “general neighborhood” of $15 round trip.

The first full year of operations will be 2018, and it is expected to be profitable.
If Brightline meets the ridership numbers that they estimate, the company will “have a very robust business that will have ample opportunity to expand throughout the state.”

Source: https://www.thenextmiami.com/brightl...ghout-florida/
They say this, and I get it- but it just doesn't make fiscal sense.

The current Tri Rail model costs $5 to get from Miami to FTL. That's at about a 21% farebox recovery rate... meaning it costs Tri Rail $25 to take you from Miami to FTL.

Tri-Rail sees 4.3 million riders per year.


So, how can a private agency assume they are going to come in and turn profit when they have to-

A. Compete with a cheaper public service that is already underutilized.
B. Sell a product at what appears to be below cost.
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte
3,930 posts, read 6,446,599 times
Reputation: 3457
WithDisp, here is the answer. It can't, not as a purely public venture. As soon as the actual costs are revealed, the investors will go running to Tallahassee and Washington for a bail-out.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:23 PM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,315,210 times
Reputation: 30999
A bit dated but a good read on the vision=
BRIGHTLINE: Plan For Miami-To-Orlando Train is Terrible, Critics Say

Evidently there will be enough passengers to fill 32 trains per day.
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