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I simply cannot agree with you that Miami / South Florida is no worse than anywhere else,
The reason I'm citing personal experience is because if personal experience is good enough in your view--that is, if it's good enough that you've had negative personal experiences to suggest that everyone will have negative personal experiences with road rage in Florida, then why isn't my personal experience good enough to suggest that everyone will have driving experiences just like anywhere else with similar population density? Maybe we should be looking for data other than non-confirmable personal experiences.
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go ask a random collective of people who actually live in the "real world" Miami and they'll tell you exactly the same thing,
Um, other than the fact that I've been recently driving in Florida for up to a couple months per year, which I already told you, why would you think I do not know a bunch of people who drive in South Florida, including Miami, regularly?
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If you want to plug your ears and bury your head in the South Beach sand, go ahead,
I want us to talk about facts, about observables, and stop pretending that we just do not need to bother with that.
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but it just goes to show that you can't handle any form of criticism directed at your faux-paradise,
I said nothing about any place being a "paradise", and that's not something that I would say. Claiming that I think that won't get you off the hook for having to provide observables that are actually related to the claims you want to make.
One more thing, you don't even live here, according to your profile:
"LocationJersey City, 1.5 miles as the crow flies from the World Trade Center site"
As if that helps you giving the same source over and over, a source that I already dissected and that you appeared to respond to my comments about . . . anyway, this shouldn't be too hard, as I've kind of given you the answer already: How much time do I spend in Florida each year? How long have I been doing that? Where did I live and how long did I live there?
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A survey is a survey
I wholeheartedly agree with "a survey is a survey".
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Are you disputing the accuracy or the results of the survey?
Hmm . . . well, what did I say in the very long post about it that you quoted as if you were responding to it?
To begin, I'd like to say hi.. I would consider reckless driving an issue in south Fl. I'm starting to wonder how most people are even "earning" their drivers licenses. There's a lot of car accidents happening daily. When you wake up in the morning and listen to the traffic reports on radio stations, I can almost guarantee you will hear of some road block due to some senseless car accidents. People are often cut off, speeding, driving TOO slow, or freaking tailgating. For what it's worth, if you do not live here I think you should take notes from people who actually live here and drive through this mayhem everyday. And for anyone who does not reside here, please don't get too touchy. This is a real issue.
There's a lot of car accidents happening daily. When you wake up in the morning and listen to the traffic reports on radio stations, I can almost guarantee you will hear of some road block due to some senseless car accidents.
There are certainly car accidents in Florida. Are we wanting to make a claim now about the number of car accidents per capita compared with other places?
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For what it's worth, if you do not live here I think you should take notes from people who actually live here and drive through this mayhem everyday. And for anyone who does not reside here, please don't get too touchy. This is a real issue.
Where have I lived? How long did I live there? How often have I been driving in Florida recently?
Where have I lived? How long did I live there? How often have I been driving in Florida recently?
I don't recall asking you any of these questions as my post was directed to everyone on the board.. And as for per capita, I never said that there were no cities with worse reckless driving than Miami.. I'm speaking on behalf of what I encounter everyday..
I don't recall asking you any of these questions as my post was directed to everyone on the board..
Okay, but I'm an example of someone who fits that--I do not live primarily in Florida. But it's probably hard to tell just where people have lived, for how long, how long they spend in particular places, etc. unless they directly state as much.
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And as for per capita, I never said that there were no cities with worse reckless driving than Miami. I'm speaking on behalf of what I encounter everyday..
Well, and reckless (always seems like it should be called (w)reckfull ) driving doesn't necessarily correlate in a predictable way to accidents. But yeah, there are definitely accidents, and there is definitely what I'd consider reckless driving in Florida, and I also wouldn't make any claims about how it stacks up on that stuff overall with other places without good data for that, but if personal experience is good enough, Florida driving isn't so bad.
The reason I'm citing personal experience is because if personal experience is good enough in your view--that is, if it's good enough that you've had negative personal experiences to suggest that everyone will have negative personal experiences with road rage in Florida, then why isn't my personal experience good enough to suggest that everyone will have driving experiences just like anywhere else with similar population density? Maybe we should be looking for data other than non-confirmable personal experiences.Um, other than the fact that I've been recently driving in Florida for up to a couple months per year, which I already told you, why would you think I do not know a bunch of people who drive in South Florida, including Miami, regularly? I want us to talk about facts, about observables, and stop pretending that we just do not need to bother with that. I said nothing about any place being a "paradise", and that's not something that I would say. Claiming that I think that won't get you off the hook for having to provide observables that are actually related to the claims you want to make.
Listen, you don't live here...I do. Being a "snowbird" (which is what I suspect you are) doesn't count. You don't commute here day in, day out like I do and like others on here do. Therefore, you don't see this BS on a daily basis, so I take your opinion with a grain of salt, being as you have displayed nothing but a condescending "holier-than-thou" attitude. You dismiss the personal experiences of people who live here, you argue the results of a well conducted survey (which you have failed to explain why you disagree with) and you basically deny that a major problem exists in a place that you don't even live in, Mr. Jersey!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a thread specifically for discussing "negative" aspects of living in South Florida? Since you clearly don't care to listen to other people's points of view that you disagree with, 1) why are you here and 2) why don't you create a "positive" thread, which I'll do you the honor of staying out of?
Anyway, the fact that you *choose* to dismiss such an important issue where people's LIVES are at stake is baffling, at best (or even downright disturbing).
I'm sure you'd feel differently if someone you cared about had been killed or injured thanks to some reckless ******* who doesn't deserve the privilege of a drivers license.
I really don't know why I'm having this debate with an individual who doesn't even live here, never mind commute here every day *shrugs*. It'd be kind of like me telling you how everything negative you may say about Jersey City is a load of BS, if you catch my drift?
Last edited by EnjoyTheSilence; 12-12-2008 at 09:38 PM..
Listen, you don't live here...I do. Being a "snowbird" (which is what I suspect you are) doesn't count. You don't commute here day in, day out like I do and like others on here do. Therefore, you don't see this BS on a daily basis, so I take your opinion with a grain of salt, being as you have displayed nothing but a condescending "holier-than-thou" attitude. You dismiss the personal experiences of people who live here, you argue the results of a well conducted survey (which you have failed to explain why you disagree with) and you basically deny that a major problem exists in a place that you don't even live in, Mr. Jersey!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a thread specifically for discussing "negative" aspects of living in South Florida? Since you clearly don't care to listen to other people's points of view that you disagree with, 1) why are you here and 2) why don't you create a "positive" thread, which I'll do you the honor of staying out of?
Anyway, the fact that you *choose* to dismiss such an important issue where people's LIVES are at stake is baffling, at best (or even downright disturbing).
I'm sure you'd feel differently if someone you cared about had been killed or injured thanks to some reckless ******* who doesn't deserve the privilege of a drivers license.
I really don't know why I'm having this debate with an individual who doesn't even live here, never mind commute here every day *shrugs*. It'd be kind of like me telling you how everything negative you may say about Jersey City is a load of BS, if you catch my drift?
Thank you for saying what most have been trying to say!
Listen, you don't live here...I do. Being a "snowbird" (which is what I suspect you are) doesn't count. You don't commute here day in, day out like I do and like others on here do. Therefore, you don't see this BS on a daily basis,
Right, so people around you drive differently if you drive there 365 days per year rather than, say, 65. Is that your thesis?
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so I take your opinion with a grain of salt, being as you have displayed nothing but a condescending "holier-than-thou" attitude.
"Everything that goes around, comes around" may apply.
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You dismiss the personal experiences of people who live here,
Anecdotes aren't usually taken to be scientific for a number of reasons, although I agree that those reasons are questionable. However, if so, my anecdotes are just as good as any. So are the anecdotes of many other people who do live and drive there 365 days per year.
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you argue the results of a well conducted survey (which you have failed to explain why you disagree with)
I couldn't possibly hang you any more than you're hanging yourself here. Should I mention again that you quoted the post that explains this and responded to it (which to me would imply that you actually read it)?
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and you basically deny that a major problem exists in a place that you don't even live in, Mr. Jersey!
What I'm denying is that you saying that something is a major problem entails that it is a major problem. Unlike you, I actually care something about epistemology, standards of empirical research, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean that I agree on all the received views there, but at least I have arguments (chains of reasoning) why I do not agree with particular received views.
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Correct me if I'm wrong,
Sure. I wouldn't worry about having to request that.
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but isn't this a thread specifically for discussing "negative" aspects of living in South Florida?
Sure. And discussing beliefs about road rage in South Florida is certainly doing that.
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Since you clearly don't care to listen to other people's points of view that you disagree with,
What you mean there is "You don't care to yield to them as if those folks are your master and you're their pupil". And that's certainly true. It's not that I'm not listening to you. It's that I'm not agreeing with you, I'm not just accepting what you say as gospel simply because you say it, etc. Listening is different than that. I'm listening and responding, which should be clear by the way I construct my posts/responses, unlike, say, quoting someone's post, typing after that as if one is listening and responding, but then repeatedly making it clear that one isn't even aware of the content of that post--even after repeated comments about that, comments that point back to that post so that one could just read it and stop sounding oblivious.
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1) why are you here
Because I read this forum regularly and comment on things that prompt thoughts that I think are worth typing out.
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and 2) why don't you create a "positive" thread, which I'll do you the honor of staying out of?
I'm not interested in you making an effort to stay out of a thread. Read what you want to read and comment on whatever you want to comment on , in whatever way you'd like to comment. I have no interest in controlling other people in that way, and I have no interest in others trying to control me in that way, which is one of the reasons that I do not find HOAs attractive.
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Anyway, the fact that you *choose* to dismiss such an important issue where people's LIVES are at stake is baffling, at best (or even downright disturbing).
And I find it baffling and maybe disturbing that people choose to dismiss the most rudimentary epistemological and empirical standards when making empirical claims, but that doesn't stop anyone. I guess that other people can easily behave in ways that we feel are baffling and disturbing.
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I'm sure you'd feel differently if someone you cared about had been killed or injured thanks to some reckless ******* who doesn't deserve the privilege of a drivers license.
Epistemological and empirical standards do not disappear just because we're emotional about a particular incident, or even a few particular incidents.
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I really don't know why I'm having this debate with an individual who doesn't even live here, never mind commute here every day *shrugs*.
I can only guess about why you'd take the actions that you do.
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It'd be kind of like me telling you how everything negative you may say about Jersey City is a load of BS, if you catch my drift?
If I were saying something negative about Jersey City, and I counted personal anecdotes as good enough, then I'd certainly think your personal anecdotes carried some weight as well, especially if you regularly spend time in Jersey City and even lived there for longer than I did. I certainly wouldn't have beliefs such as, "Jersey City is different--it's people are different, it's urban morphology is different, etc., if you live here year-round than if you are only here for part of the year." I don't know how that would make any sense.
Of course, if you had never been to Jersey City that would be another matter, but then I'd just wonder why you were doing something as odd as commenting on it as if you had been there when you hadn't. Normally, though, I wouldn't even doubt that you'd been there. I'd only assume that if you had said you'd never been there. I certainly wouldn't take someone's present "location" comment to imply anything about how much time they've spent in other locations, what they've done in those other locations, etc. That wouldn't be very bright, imo.
Last edited by Tungsten_Udder; 12-13-2008 at 05:38 AM..
Reason: I'm th etiip oh king
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And as for per capita, I never said that there were no cities with worse reckless driving than Miami.. I'm speaking on behalf of what I encounter everyday..
) driving doesn't necessarily correlate in a predictable way to accidents. But yeah, there are definitely accidents, and there is definitely what I'd consider reckless driving in Florida, and I also wouldn't make any claims about how it stacks up on that stuff overall with other places without good data for that, but if personal experience is good enough, Florida driving isn't so bad. 
