Computer Science Grads in DFW Area (Houston, Dallas: 2013, credit, home)

[joseph8]

Asking all Computer Science Majors and Grads: What are the best C.S. B.S. Degree Programs for the "average" student. B, C student with SAT of approx. Math 550 Critical Reading 550? In academic coursework the student is a C-B in Math Courses.

Which University is more difficult: UNT (Denton) or Texas A&M Commerce? Any other Texas Universities to consider?
UNT C.S. is ABET Accredited; however, Commerce is not.

Does the ABET factor in when looking for employment?

What makes a successful C.S. grad in the DFW job market?

Thanks in advance!

[djslakor]

I have an ABET accredited Comp Sci degree.

So far in my professional career, the only thing that mattered was if I had the technology skills the employer needed. If you have a portfolio of work you can show an employer "this is what I built, and this is how I did it", it will trump any accreditation in my opinion.

You may see very large employers care about ABET, such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc., but it's really just a HR filter as far as I'm concerned. Demonstrate your skills inline with what people actually want in 2013, and you'll be golden.

[veronica7]

Originally Posted by djslakor

I have an ABET accredited Comp Sci degree.

So far in my professional career, the only thing that mattered was if I had the technology skills the employer needed. If you have a portfolio of work you can show an employer "this is what I built, and this is how I did it", it will trump any accreditation in my opinion.

You may see very large employers care about ABET, such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc., but it's really just a HR filter as far as I'm concerned. Demonstrate your skills inline with what people actually want in 2013, and you'll be golden.

May I ask what University you graduated from and why you chose that University?

What is your advice in order of C.S. Degree Programs Universities to apply to?

Is UTA, UNT or TAMU-C in the list?

What is the least difficult university to earn a C.S. degree while still able to get employment (provided you create an excellent portfolio) ?

[djslakor]

I personally went to Midwestern State University because it was located in my hometown, and offered a CSAB (now ABET) accredited program. I lived at home my first 2 years and had a free ride between 3 scholarships.

While it is not a name most recognize, many of my peers went on to work at Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Telos, etc.. Another friend who did his M.S. there now manages the registrar development team at GoDaddy. He's literally in charge of the developers who run the largest registrar in the world.

As an aside, one of my closest friends from H.S. did his Comp Sci degree at U. Penn to the tune of $150k (recall, mine was $0). I've done better than him every year since graduating (we both graduated in 2002). I got a job right away and was earning in the $50ks in Vegas while he worked at Kinkos for 2 yrs looking for a job. Why? Experience. He had 0. I had already built several things in my life and could show employers I had a clue. That's all that matters.

The world may have changed slightly since then, but I doubt it. I make hiring decisions now, and truly all I care about is that someone can do the job. A degree shows me they complete goals, are ostensibly capable of learning, and ostensibly responsible. True, some say you can be a great engineer without a degree ... and I've certainly found that to be the case in some instances, but those people can also be a pain in other professional ways (showing up on time, taking direction well, etc. etc.). A college degree is a fair rubric to separate the wheat from the chaff in most cases. Outliers are overwhelmingly the exception rather than the rule.

I'd personally recommend going to the cheapest accredited school you can get into and focus on teaching yourself specifics of the area you want to work in, and start building a portfolio of examples. A comp sci degree is mostly theory, which, while important, is not enough to be immediately useful in the real world without supplemental knowledge of modern platforms. Your computer science education is more theoretical in an effort to be timeless and applicable despite changing platforms. It is similar to an art or music degree. If you wish to be an artist or musician, you will obviously need to figure a lot of things out on your own outside of school. Computer science is exactly the same. You will get decent knowledge of C/C++ or Java depending on the school you attend, but very little exposure to how it's used in the real world (you wouldn't be learning Java Spring or Hibernate, for example). Learn as much as you can in your data structures course, it's probably the most useful of all.

A github account or online portfolio of work showing me what you can do will absolutely trump pedigree of where you went to school, in my opinion.

[loves2read]

I think that is great advice but I also think many hiring managers don't have a clue about what makes a good employee...
maybe computer engineering is a different field but it seems like people I see hiring others are more swayed by interview skills or who they know than how good a worker they will be...

[djslakor]

It is certainly true you have to make your best guess about the work ethic of a candidate based on the small time you're exposed to him/her during an interview before hiring them. This is typically why probation periods are used.

There are MANY, MANY superior engineers that have horrible work ethic (lazy, over procrastinate, simply don't care, rude, don't follow directives, etc.), yet have solid technical knowledge. It is partly the leader's job to inspire motivation and movement, but some workers are just plain lazy. Employers clearly must locate both solid technical skill and great work ethic (and I would argue I'd rather have someone with a fantastic work ethic and average technical skills for most roles - you get more overall net value).

I take references with a grain of salt. Of course a friend is going to say his/her friend will be a great employee. The proof is ultimately in the pudding. I've found genuine enthusiasm in an interview to be a good indicator of one's proactive-ness. You would be amazed how many people interview with an attitude of not giving a f* less on if they get the job or not. It's exceedingly rare to interview a candidate that has enthusiastic energy.

[joseph8]

Originally Posted by djslakor

I personally went to Midwestern State University because it was located in my hometown, and offered a CSAB (now ABET) accredited program. I lived at home my first 2 years and had a free ride between 3 scholarships.

While it is not a name most recognize, many of my peers went on to work at Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Telos, etc.. Another friend who did his M.S. there now manages the registrar development team at GoDaddy. He's literally in charge of the developers who run the largest registrar in the world.

As an aside, one of my closest friends from H.S. did his Comp Sci degree at U. Penn to the tune of $150k (recall, mine was $0). I've done better than him every year since graduating (we both graduated in 2002). I got a job right away and was earning in the $50ks in Vegas while he worked at Kinkos for 2 yrs looking for a job. Why? Experience. He had 0. I had already built several things in my life and could show employers I had a clue. That's all that matters.

The world may have changed slightly since then, but I doubt it. I make hiring decisions now, and truly all I care about is that someone can do the job. A degree shows me they complete goals, are ostensibly capable of learning, and ostensibly responsible. True, some say you can be a great engineer without a degree ... and I've certainly found that to be the case in some instances, but those people can also be a pain in other professional ways (showing up on time, taking direction well, etc. etc.). A college degree is a fair rubric to separate the wheat from the chaff in most cases. Outliers are overwhelmingly the exception rather than the rule.

I'd personally recommend going to the cheapest accredited school you can get into and focus on teaching yourself specifics of the area you want to work in, and start building a portfolio of examples. A comp sci degree is mostly theory, which, while important, is not enough to be immediately useful in the real world without supplemental knowledge of modern platforms. Your computer science education is more theoretical in an effort to be timeless and applicable despite changing platforms. It is similar to an art or music degree. If you wish to be an artist or musician, you will obviously need to figure a lot of things out on your own outside of school. Computer science is exactly the same. You will get decent knowledge of C/C++ or Java depending on the school you attend, but very little exposure to how it's used in the real world (you wouldn't be learning Java Spring or Hibernate, for example). Learn as much as you can in your data structures course, it's probably the most useful of all.

A github account or online portfolio of work showing me what you can do will absolutely trump pedigree of where you went to school, in my opinion.

Computer Science is my passion. Since childhood I loved computers and technology.

I am looking into an ABET accredited University in my home State of Texas, Prairie View A&M outside of Houston, TX.

My concern is that they do virtually all of their training on C++. Is that a concern what language your University has you to study? In the Dallas area where I currently live most Universities focus on Java.

What is the better choice to train on C++ or Java? Or is it okay to train on C++ with minimal knowledge in Java like the University I am thinking of attending? Thanks!

[joseph8]

Originally Posted by djslakor

It is certainly true you have to make your best guess about the work ethic of a candidate based on the small time you're exposed to him/her during an interview before hiring them. This is typically why probation periods are used.

There are MANY, MANY superior engineers that have horrible work ethic (lazy, over procrastinate, simply don't care, rude, don't follow directives, etc.), yet have solid technical knowledge. It is partly the leader's job to inspire motivation and movement, but some workers are just plain lazy. Employers clearly must locate both solid technical skill and great work ethic (and I would argue I'd rather have someone with a fantastic work ethic and average technical skills for most roles - you get more overall net value).

I take references with a grain of salt. Of course a friend is going to say his/her friend will be a great employee. The proof is ultimately in the pudding. I've found genuine enthusiasm in an interview to be a good indicator of one's proactive-ness. You would be amazed how many people interview with an attitude of not giving a f* less on if they get the job or not. It's exceedingly rare to interview a candidate that has enthusiastic energy.

What are some of the hottest Specialties in Computer Science in 2013 and beyond? I live in Texas (Dallas) however may travel also.

[djslakor]

Joseph,

My university used C/C++ (more-so C). I graduated in 2002. Universities started transitioning to Java right about that time.

I think you're _much better off_ learning C/C++ in University. Learning how to manage memory yourself gives you a much deeper understanding of how data structures work and what's going on behind the scenes, if you will. Once you're producing code in the real world, of course a more productive language like Java makes sense in most cases since it manages memory for you (fewer bugs, etc.). However, in the LEARNING stage of your career, I'd highly recommend plain vanilla C to learn the ins and outs of programming. I had mastered C before I finished highschool (to be honest, it's a very simple language, there's not _that_ much to learn). Picking up other C-style language (of which there are a lot) is very easy if you already know C.

So, while in college, focus on learning the concepts. When you learn data structures, learn the theory of the data structure, not just which function calls in language x to use. Languages evolve and new ones are introduced all the time. Part of being a computer scientist is adaptation. If you learn the fundamentals, they translate very well among languages.

Also, get out of the notion that you only learn at University. Hogwash. I'd say 95% of the skills I use on a day to day basis in the programming world were self-taught by reading books that interested me. Maybe 5% were skills from University in the "how to program with C++" category. Universities expect you to learn that stuff on your own time.

[hal2814]

Language doesn't really matter all that much in computer science. It's nice when a department standardizes on language so they you can learn core principles instead of getting caught up on things like language syntax and structure. Otherwise, C++ and Java are booth good languages to learn on. When I got my degree, my CS department was making the switch from C++ to Java so we were generally given a choice of which language to use. IMHO, Java's biggest strengths as a teaching language is its API. In some higher level classes like Networking it was nice using the Java API instead of an external C++ library. C++ on the other hand is a lot better about teaching things like memory management and pointers/references. Some of the underclassmen who were Java-only when I was in school really struggled with objects vs primitive types as function parameters because they didn't really have a clear grasp of what a reference is.

Your employer generally isn't going to care which language you learned on in your coursework. It's not like they'll count that as work experience. With a CS degree you should be able to thumb through a reference book or website and pick up just about any language. I'm currently a C# programmer. I've had professional experience with Java, PERL, Python, C#, VB6, VB.NET, Ruby, F#, Objective-C, and even some PHP. It doesn't really matter. What you learn in computer science is how to correctly and efficiently tell the computer what to do. The programming language is just a tool to express those instructions.