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Its a shame big spenders dont only marry other big spenders, they can share bankruptcy together. At least they had a couple years living the high life.
But alas it seems spenders tend to marry savers and the troubles begin. I suspect the spenders are attracted to the financial stability, but dont want to actually walk the walk. And I suspect the savers are attracted to the feeling of financial freedom to spend on goodies, but remain sensible enough to want that reserve savings and no debt.
Simple enough divorce, split the assets. The saver will do fine with half and probably regain most of it through frugality. The spender will be bankrupt and in deep debt within couple years and living far worse conditions than when married to the saver. But hey what a thrill ride for those two years, huh?
What I wonder here is if this man is a saver married to a spender who perhaps has a past history of running up debt. There's lot regarding the female half of this partnership that's being left unsaid. How much money does she bring to the table and what are her attitudes towards money? Is the male half of this partnership a reformed spender or someone who had a crisis that necessitated taking on debt in order to stay afloat? I wonder about both since the author mentions not wanting to go through having credit card debt *again*.
Even though I'm thrifty and will be damned if I'll let the "Joneses" or HGTV dictate what I will and will not buy, there are times when it's necessary and good to open up the wallet a bit and let the moths fly out. Being penny-wise and pound-foolish and choosing penury out of fear is no way to live.
There a balance to be found between feeling the need to financially spread yourself too thinly in order to buy material goods just to keep up with what others have and having nice things as you can reasonable afford to obtain them--even if those nice things are purchased second-hand, are floor models, from the local scratch-and-dent, or cars coming off a lease. Obtaining nice things doesn't have to equal credit card debt and the lack of a solid emergency fund.
For the person cited in the article, a nice compromise between husband and wife could be purchasing a smaller detached house instead of a condo and gradually turning it into a sweet little jewel box of a home (less square footage to update and maintain means that nicer finishes become much more affordable--especially if a lot of the simpler things like painting, changing out lighting/fixtures, and landscaping can be done by the homeowner and his wife) and buying a nice, reliable car that's not necessarily a luxury vehicle. If neither of those options (not owning a McMansion with an Audi in the driveway) is good enough for the wife, this couple has issues of which money is a mere symptom.
As for seeing what others are doing on social media, that's a self-imposed problem if there ever was one. Stay in your own lane, go outside and get some fresh air and sunshine, and create limits on your exposure to it by removing (or never adding) it to your phone. When friends mention where they've been on vacation, it's okay to just live a bit vicariously through them and enjoy the tales of their adventures. If these friends are of the "look at me" variety and are into constant oneupmanship, they're not friends of the sort that are good to keep around if they're using their materials means to deliberately put you down.
I had a friend like this man. For a while, he was engaged to a woman who he said had problems with spending. AFAIK, she did not have any student loans or significant credit card debt. I asked him specifically what the problem was and he was never able to give me a good answer. I had basically become friends with him because we were work colleagues who were buying foreclosure homes at the same time. Initially, he was so cheap that he refused to pay for trash pickup and put his trash in someone else’s bins. He also had several other friends he seemed to like because they gave him free stuff, took him and his daughter with them on vacations in their camper, etc. He was opposed to shopping anywhere but Walmart because he believed it was the cheapest. However, when he started dating this woman, he evened out a bit and stopped being quite so cheap. They went on vacations and apparently did more activities. I was really sad when they broke up because he seemed to be more tolerable/normal.
FWIW, this man is talking about buying a $300K home in the suburbs, which might be a fairly modest home depending on the location. I am in Chicagoland and bought a house last year in that price range. It is a small, older home. I changed out the dishwasher because it was old/rusty inside and sounded like a ship’s horn half the time, but my stove is at least 40 years old and going fine.
I think those things don't require being in debt. Not buying new shoes, doesn't require being in debt. Replacing a crappy refrigerator that does, doesn't require being in debt. Not driving a car that's falling apart, doesn't require being in debt.
At least in the car and shoes example, it's a case of penny-wise and pound foolish. I wonder how much of his savings will end up in the pockets of podiatrists or chiropractors. If his car is falling apart, at some point he's throwing car payments into it to keep it on the road.
Devil is in the detail. New items bought for status tend to be far more expensive. The spender doesnt just want new, they want fancy enough kind of new to keep up with the Jones'.
Crappy is in the eye of the beholder. I am guessing a mechanically dependable old refrigerator (or car) with new coat of paint so it looks 'pretty' not going to satisfy the spender. Its the thrill of owning NEW and expensive with latest electronic gimmicks.
Old doesnt mean crappy if it can economically be kept in repair and reliable.
And even spending $5000 on that old car to keep it going is going to be more expensive than payments on some new $50k car???? I think not, least not more than a few payments even if you get that 30 year mortgage on the car to lower payments. Most people justify stupid financial decisions by whining about the "money pit" when actually buying a new expensive car would be the bigger money pit, especially if economy goes down hill and you are out of work. Same with that mega-McMansion. NO job, look how fast the bank owns it all. Whats that theme that reoccurs regularly, that most Americans have so much debt they are within couple paychecks of living on the street????!!!!
"Our appliances are 20 years old. Much to my wife’s dismay, I keep fixing them with a $10 part. I am comfortable living this way. I grew up on hand-me-down clothes and I shop in thrift-store shoes. Our quality of life is really good compared to when I was a kid.
This is affecting our overall happiness. Our friends have much nicer homes with stone facades, big bedrooms and hotel-like master bathrooms. Every other neighbor drives a newer Lexus or Audi. Our friends and other people on social media are doing fun things all the time, or at least creating the impression that they’re in the Florida Keys every couple months.
I live in fear. I’m afraid of credit-card debt. I never want to go through that again. I fear that if I bought a $300,000 home in the suburbs I could lose my job next month. People lose their jobs all the time. I don’t want to be one of those people who lost their house due to financial hardship.
I worry that another downturn could happen, and the house would lose a third of its value. I don’t even know if I want to live here for the rest of my life. My issue is more than simply living frugally. It’s an everyday, obsessive worry about money."
This is an interesting article. I think many of us may be in a similar situation. You want to live as cheaply as possible, avoid debt and be free of being controlled.
She wants what her friends have; newer expensive stuff that requires being in debt.
What do you think?
I like your point of view regarding debt. I've never wanted to keep up with the Joneses. They're not the ones paying the bills. We always made sure we lived within our means and didn't have mortgages (or very short-term ones) or car loans. Neither of us can tolerate debt. I only shop at thrift stores unless it's to buy something I cannot find that is a necessity. Like you, my husband has saved us thousands of dollars over the years, as he can repair almost anything and has built things for our houses. Seeing how cheaply we can live is my hobby. I would much rather live frugally than to wake up at night in a cold sweat worrying about money. It's not worth it IMO. But of course, I don't have to live with your wife, lol.
Its a shame big spenders dont only marry other big spenders, they can share bankruptcy together. At least they had a couple years living the high life.
But alas it seems spenders tend to marry savers and the troubles begin. I suspect the spenders are attracted to the financial stability, but dont want to actually walk the walk. And I suspect the savers are attracted to the feeling of financial freedom to spend on goodies, but remain sensible enough to want that reserve savings and no debt.
Simple enough divorce, split the assets. The saver will do fine with half and probably regain most of it through frugality. The spender will be bankrupt and in deep debt within couple years and living far worse conditions than when married to the saver. But hey what a thrill ride for those two years, huh?
Extreme much? I know lots of frugal/saver types that marry more of a "spender" without intense conflict. An agreement on goals, and agreeing on a plan to reach them, is what matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
Devil is in the detail. New items bought for status tend to be far more expensive. The spender doesnt just want new, they want fancy enough kind of new to keep up with the Jones'.
Crappy is in the eye of the beholder. I am guessing a mechanically dependable old refrigerator (or car) with new coat of paint so it looks 'pretty' not going to satisfy the spender.
A refrigerator that's constantly breaking needing parts isn't dependable. It's a PITA to have to rush to the store and get the part and hope your food doesn't spoil, or to clean up the leaks. A new refrigerator isn't so expensive that one can't pay cash for it, especially in the situation discussed. It is unreasonable to expect a spouse to constantly deal with that if it's a solveable problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
Its the thrill of owning NEW and expensive with latest electronic gimmicks.
No, it's the thrill of knowing that the car is going to start, and that the AC isn't going to go out, and that you won't get to work flustered and sweaty and late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
Old doesnt mean crappy if it can economically be kept in repair and reliable.
The gentleman in the article refers to a car that's falling apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
And even spending $5000 on that old car to keep it going is going to be more expensive than payments on some new $50k car????
Where do we get to "$50K car?" A brand new entry level corolla or Civic can be had for 1/3 that. A decent CUV for half that. Less if you buy used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
I think not, least not more than a few payments even if you get that 30 year mortgage on the car to lower payments. Most people justify stupid financial decisions by whining about the "money pit" when actually buying a new expensive car would be the bigger money pit, especially if economy goes down hill and you are out of work. Same with that mega-McMansion. NO job, look how fast the bank owns it all. Whats that theme that reoccurs regularly, that most Americans have so much debt they are within couple paychecks of living on the street????!!!!
You can control your money, or your money can control you. A perennially broke spendthrift and an extreme miser are both controlled by their money. You equate these things to a drunk taking a drink. One can look at their situation, and their goals, and say "I want a better place, but don't care about the car right now." Or, "let's spend $15 K upgrading one of the cars, and buy a bigger place within these budget constraints." Making such a decision doesn't equate to maxing out the amex and buying a new Mercedes.
When you put credit card debt at 20% in the same category as the 3.5% 15 year mortgage on a modest 3 bedroom ranch house in 'good schools' suburbia (ie the part of the area where home values tend to be stable or appreciating) then you're having a problem with the concept that there can be both appropriate kinds of debt and bad types of debt and he needs to work with that.
Also, what is the goal of saving money in mass quantities like it sounds like he is doing? Early retirement? X amount in the accounts in case of emergency? Or is he sliding into the place where it serves as a security blanket and there's never going to be enough in that account, even as he starts to hold up his pants with rope because his belt broke and he doesn't want to spend money on a new one?
He's done an admirable job of digging himself out of the financial hole in his 20s but probably at the cost of a less than healthy relationship with money in other ways.
I wouldn't want to pay interest on a depreciating asset. So I think the guy is right to shy away from using debt to purchase clothes, appliances, car, etc. On the other hand, it sounds like this couple has some savings, so he could probably compromise and agree to pay cash for some of his wife's desired upgrades.
The house is another matter. I struggle with this myself, in a slightly different way: I recently moved from an area with very cheap real estate to a bigger city with a more moderate cost of living. Like the guy in the letter, I tend to value money as a source of security. My natural frugality causes me to look at a house here which costs twice as much as a similar house in my old city and wonder why I moved, if I ever plan to own a home. On the other hand, houses often maintain value or even appreciate, and I could easily afford a monthly mortgage payment here. So the question becomes whether I'd really save money living in the city with cheaper houses, or if my instinctive aversion to high prices is leading me astray from a prudent investment.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I'm glad OP is just posting the bogus story from this artificial article and not his OWN life!!! He would need a big bonk on the noggin. This must have been a 'troll story' (just to make a headline / sell a couple copies for Quentin Fottrell
I, and most 'grown-ups', are perfectly comfortable in our own skins and can even feel 'American' making the right decisions.
I have never considered marriage to be a 'compromise'... each party better be bought in 100% to each other. Negotiations / compromise are a lot of trouble and often fail / leave someone less than whole, or cause misunderstandings.
Extreme much? I know lots of frugal/saver types that marry more of a "spender" without intense conflict. An agreement on goals, and agreeing on a plan to reach them, is what matters.
A refrigerator that's constantly breaking needing parts isn't dependable. It's a PITA to have to rush to the store and get the part and hope your food doesn't spoil, or to clean up the leaks A new refrigerator isn't so expensive that one can't pay cash for it, especially in the situation discussed. It is unreasonable to expect a spouse to constantly deal with that if it's a solveable problem..
Now who is at the extreme. If the refrigerator is not where it costs too much to fix, then fix it. If more economical, buy another used refrigerator. Craigslist is full of them, though some they want too much mon
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV
No, it's the thrill of knowing that the car is going to start, and that the AC isn't going to go out, and that you won't get to work flustered and sweaty and late.
The gentleman in the article refers to a car that's falling apart.
Where do we get to "$50K car?" A brand new entry level corolla or Civic can be had for 1/3 that. A decent CUV for half that. Less if you buy used.
Again if the car is too rusted or the parts too expensive (some modern engines and transmissions are stratosphere priced and shouldnt have bought a car with such in first place), then find another USED car. Getting that 30 year mortgage on a car that will last 10 year, so you can pretend you have bought most reliable thing on wheels or its good for environment is silly. If you have a good mechanic, get an honest opinion of whether its truly falling apart. That shouldnt cost more than $100. If its just not pretty anymore, spend the $500 for Maaco paint job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV
You can control your money, or your money can control you.
We agree, it is controlling you if you think buying ever more NEW things will make your life smell like roses. I just think you should use common sense and not ASSUME something is trash cause its used. Lot of people that want something new denigrate and neglect maintenance on what they have already and if what they have isnt repairable, dont look for most practical USED replacement that is still servicable. Seen people trade in perfetly good reliable cars in order to theoretically get another 5mpg or a seat warmer to keep their rear warm, when all the payments would buy a heck of a lot of gasoline and 12V heating pad. But hey its your money, you find it easier to make easy monthly payments forever, be my guest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV
A perennially broke spendthrift and an extreme miser are both controlled by their money. You equate these things to a drunk taking a drink. One can look at their situation, and their goals, and say "I want a better place, but don't care about the car right now." Or, "let's spend $15 K upgrading one of the cars, and buy a bigger place within these budget constraints." Making such a decision doesn't equate to maxing out the amex and buying a new Mercedes.
And some of us just dont value spending money so we can show off our new and shiney possessions. Possessions are there to serve a function, not to impress the neighbors. Will use the car as an example, the goal is to spend the least money per mile. So will putting $5k into your old car make it cost more per mile than spending $50k on a new car. Unless you have some tax write off on new car, unlikely it will ever be as cheap per mile than fixing your old car. Course if you have some crazy expensive to repair old car, and some are, then buy a serviceable used car that is cheap to repair. Seems your goal is to spend all you can, just not go "too far" into debt, whatever that is. My notion, if it meets my needs , then I dont need to replace it. Care less what anybody else thinks.
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I would much rather live frugally than to wake up at night in a cold sweat worrying about money. It's not worth it IMO. But of course, I don't have to live with your wife, lol.
