Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some terms are being confused here. There is no test that will give you "more haplogroups." The haplogroup you tested is only your cousin's direct paternal line, and represents only that part of his ancestry tracing back his father's father's father's father's… etc. line back for thousands of years. Your cousin's Y chromosome can only have one haplogroup so there is no way through him to find haplogroups of your other ancestors.
Upgrade with the Family Finder test at FTDNA to get their "My Origins" which is the full ethnicity breakdown that does not come from haplogroups. It comes from chromosomes 1-22, not the Y chromosome, and is the DNA that comes from many different parts of the family tree, males and females.
He probably took the Y-37 or Y-67 test. The numbers 37 and 67 refer to the number of STR markers that were tested, each one represented by a number value. With those numbers they can usually "predict" the haplogroup, which is why it says his haplogroup is "predicted." To get a "confirmed" haplogroup you would need to test SNPs (not STRs). On his home page it probably recommends what steps to take next for further testing if you are interested in getting more definition for his haplogroup (sounds like you are not).
Some terms are being confused here. There is no test that will give you "more haplogroups." The haplogroup you tested is only your cousin's direct paternal line, and represents only that part of his ancestry tracing back his father's father's father's father's… etc. line back for thousands of years. Your cousin's Y chromosome can only have one haplogroup so there is no way through him to find haplogroups of your other ancestors.
Upgrade with the Family Finder test at FTDNA to get their "My Origins" which is the full ethnicity breakdown that does not come from haplogroups. It comes from chromosomes 1-22, not the Y chromosome, and is the DNA that comes from many different parts of the family tree, males and females.
He probably took the Y-37 or Y-67 test. The numbers 37 and 67 refer to the number of STR markers that were tested, each one represented by a number value. With those numbers they can usually "predict" the haplogroup, which is why it says his haplogroup is "predicted." To get a "confirmed" haplogroup you would need to test SNPs (not STRs). On his home page it probably recommends what steps to take next for further testing if you are interested in getting more definition for his haplogroup (sounds like you are not).
Thank you. Yes, we wanted to examine the paternal line exclusively. And thanks for explaining "predicted" vs. "confirmed" hg's. So the next test would be SNP's. I'll take a look at the page again, to see what they recommend. But I imagine it would only confirm what has already been "predicted".
ftdna will not tell you your finally terminal snp. there are a little lazy on that. They have me listed as L21 but further testing got me at L555 but i,m still listed as L21
OK, but you're still "L". I was expecting/hoping we might be "N" instead of "R", but we're not. I imagine it's pretty rare for a HG to be "predicted", but turn out to be a different one when the SNP's are tested. We're probably still stuck with R1b, generic West Europeans. But thanks, every little bit of info helps me to understand the process.
OK, but you're still "L". I was expecting/hoping we might be "N" instead of "R", but we're not. I imagine it's pretty rare for a HG to be "predicted", but turn out to be a different one when the SNP's are tested. We're probably still stuck with R1b, generic West Europeans. But thanks, every little bit of info helps me to understand the process.
The thing to keep in mind it is a tree. So L, N, or R are just high level haplgroups. The SNPs help you dig down deeper.
R1b is a very ancient haplogroup, as old as 18,000 years or so old. If you look at the high level R1b maps here:
You can see that you can find R1b in a huge area. It's biggest hotspot is in Western Europe but it's far from exclusive. It likely originated in West Asia and just represents the further movements west. There are in fact hotspots outside of Western Europe however, and many areas of moderate levels.
You can see in this next image (from Eupedia) the believed migration map of R1b and it's sub-branches:
As you can see there are in fact many sub-branches that don't end in Western Europe. This is why knowing a line is R1b isn't that useful. That person could come up with a sub-branch that's actually quite rare in Western Europe.
For example I'm R1b but I go down through the U152 branch:
Though my paternal ancestry likely came through England as you can see the modern hotspot is Northern Italy. There are multiple ways that U152 probably got introduced into England (or the area that became England)... the Bell Beaker movements into that area, Celtic movements, the Romans, and then the Normans, as well as a variety of smaller movements. Here's one ideal on how it could have branched out quite early on:
The thing to keep in mind is U152 is a sub-branch of R1b. R1b is like calling something a mammal, well there are many types of mammals, including a variety of species and sub-species branches. that's where SNPs come in, they help you identify you sub-branches.
Just wanted to add again that if you look at your Y DNA matches and see if they have any terminal SNPS listed (I posted some pics previously on how to do that) those will almost definitely be valid for you, so you can get that info without testing if a close match has already done the testing. If you've checked this before then ignore this post
The thing to keep in mind it is a tree. So L, N, or R are just high level haplgroups. The SNPs help you dig down deeper.
R1b is a very ancient haplogroup, as old as 18,000 years or so old. If you look at the high level R1b maps here:
.
This is very interesting. So if I go deeper, it might tell me if we're Udmurts (the concentration of R1b over by the Urals), or the Central Asian R1b's, or something else. That could be interesting. OK. I'm going to study this some more. Maybe it's worth going deeper. There could be a surprise, you never know.
OK, but you're still "L". I was expecting/hoping we might be "N" instead of "R", but we're not. I imagine it's pretty rare for a HG to be "predicted", but turn out to be a different one when the SNP's are tested. We're probably still stuck with R1b, generic West Europeans. But thanks, every little bit of info helps me to understand the process.
you are really going be confuse now
L21, L555 those are short cut names for the r1b1a2a1a2c1j. in the short cut the L is the lab that discovered it and the 21 is the name of the snp.
my real terminal so far is the r1b1a2a1a2c1j but its easiler to type L555 which is not what you are talking about with the "N' and others
L21, L555 those are short cut names for the r1b1a2a1a2c1j. in the short cut the L is the lab that discovered it and the 21 is the name of the snp.
my real terminal so far is the r1b1a2a1a2c1j but its easiler to type L555 which is not what you are talking about with the "N' and others
Oh, wow! Thanks for explaining that. Well, I don't really care so much about putting a finer point on the generic R1b, but you never know, I guess. It could help, unexpectedly.
I see, now, thanks to the maps, how pinpointing which R1b branch it is could be helpful. R1b1a2 (M-269) starts in the Black Sea steppe area and branches off to the west, and NW, with further branches. So thats what further analysis would tell us; where our branch of R1b ended up.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-12-2015 at 07:29 PM..
Oh, wow! Thanks for explaining that. Well, I don't really care so much about putting a finer point on the generic R1b, but you never know, I guess. It could help, unexpectedly.
I see, now, thanks to the maps, how pinpointing which R1b branch it is could be helpful. R1b1a2 (M-269) starts in the Black Sea steppe area and branches off to the west, and NW, with further branches. So thats what further analysis would tell us; where our branch of R1b ended up.
Yeah, he definitely made a good point. When talking about the branches L21 or U152 which are both under R it's not uncommon to see it as R-L21 or R-U152 to cut down on confusion since different root branches may in fact share the same designations which obviously can be confusing.
Yeah, he definitely made a good point. When talking about the branches L21 or U152 which are both under R it's not uncommon to see it as R-L21 or R-U152 to cut down on confusion since different root branches may in fact share the same designations which obviously can be confusing.
OK, I can see now how having that info would really be helpful. I think I'll recommend that to my cousin, so we can see where our sub-group migrated to.
Thanks, everyone!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
