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I know. It's just a joke, no harm intended. I am interested in the conversation and the service, but am asking more questions than I am contributing to the information set here, which probably isn't very helpful in your search for more information.
I know. It's just a joke, no harm intended. I am interested in the conversation and the service, but am asking more questions than I am contributing to the information set here, which probably isn't very helpful in your search for more information.
It's comparing your DNA with a reference panel of samples from modern people. That is the way pretty much all admixture/ethnicity works, unless you're comparing with archaic samples. That I know of, only gedmatch provides archaic samples. Maybe FTDNA has some with their Hunter-Gatherer vs Ancient Farmer results, but that's still not a part of ethnicity.
This is what their brief description of the sub-country regions says:
"In the last 200 years, your ancestors may have lived in the following locations.
We found evidence of your recent ancestry in the following regions. Darker regions represent places where you have DNA in common with more people who report ancestry from that particular region. Because these results reflect the ancestries of individuals currently in our reference database, expect to see your results change over time as that database grows."
But why exactly we have more in common with certain areas is what we're speculating about.
True, but an ethnicity test like the paid ones at Ancestry/MyHeritage/23andMe, etc. try to break down your ethnicity into percentages of your unique ancestry. Tests like the K36 do not. It only shows how you match modern populations and doesn't hazard a guess on whether it is because a person has actual ancestry from a region, or merely has a personal DNA profile that matches the reference population from that area (although taxe de similitude does give you the ability to remove one specific reference panel to see how you match the rest of them.)
Both are useful, IMO, but are showing you different ways of looking at your DNA compared to the reference populations.
True, but an ethnicity test like the paid ones at Ancestry/MyHeritage/23andMe, etc. try to break down your ethnicity into percentages of your unique ancestry. Tests like the K36 do not.
I'm not really sure what you mean - K36 does try to break down your ethnicity into percentages, it's what all admixture/ethnicity reports do.
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It only shows how you match modern populations and doesn't hazard a guess on whether it is because a person has actual ancestry from a region, or merely has a personal DNA profile that matches the reference population from that area (although taxe de similitude does give you the ability to remove one specific reference panel to see how you match the rest of them.)
Both are useful, IMO, but are showing you different ways of looking at your DNA compared to the reference populations.
It may not specifically say "this is your ancestry" but generally that's what people take away from it, and the intent of all ethnicity reports. They are different interpretations of your DNA but the methodology is the same in principle. They are both comparing your DNA to modern samples and trying to determine how much of your DNA most closely matches which samples in hopes it's a good representation of your ancestry.
I'm not really sure what you mean - K36 does try to break down your ethnicity into percentages, it's what all admixture/ethnicity reports do.
It may not specifically say "this is your ancestry" but generally that's what people take away from it, and the intent of all ethnicity reports. They are different interpretations of your DNA but the methodology is the same in principle. They are both comparing your DNA to modern samples and trying to determine how much of your DNA most closely matches which samples in hopes it's a good representation of your ancestry.
K36 is primarily a mapping tool, which is why there is no Oracle attached to it.
An important point to keep in mind is not to take the ancestry proportions too literally. If you're, say, English, and you get an Iberian score of 12% this doesn't actually mean you have recent ancestry from Spain or Portugal. What it means is that 12% of your alleles look typical of the reference samples classified as Iberian, and this figure might only indicate recent Iberian admixture if it's clearly higher than those of other English users
Another way to look at it is that the ancestry proportions are like map coordinates, and they'll place you with a very high degree of accuracy on a genetic map featuring other users. Indeed, please feel free to post your scores and ancestry details in the comments below to help others get an idea of what their results might represent. My results are listed below. The scores put me squarely in Poland relative to those of other European samples I've run, which is correct.
each individual ethnicity percent is viewed as x or y axis coordinate on the map of Europe. The heat map that is produced is "hottest" where the reference population is closest to your K36 results. Taxe de Similitude is ambivalent as to whether this hot spot is due to having actual ancestry in this region, or if it is result of admix, or genetic similarity among communities. You can see this clearly when you try to chart a very admixed individual...........the heat map comes back yellow (indicating mid-low similarity) nearly everywhere. This doesn't mean the individual has ancestry from everywhere, it means they don't strongly match any one living reference population.
While all of these tests do try to ultimately answer the same question "this is your ancestry" they go about calculating that, and describing it in different ways. I really hope nobody uses K36 to say......I am 1.84% French, 13.5% Italian, 1.9% Central Euro, etc. The test's ethnicity results aren't intended to be representative of your actual ancestry, which is what a service like Ancestry.com is attempting to accomplish.
An important point to keep in mind is not to take the ancestry proportions too literally. If you're, say, English, and you get an Iberian score of 12% this doesn't actually mean you have recent ancestry from Spain or Portugal. What it means is that 12% of your alleles look typical of the reference samples classified as Iberian, and this figure might only indicate recent Iberian admixture if it's clearly higher than those of other English users
All of that is true for any ethnicity/admixture, whether they tell you up front and in plain terms or not.
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Another way to look at it is that the ancestry proportions are like map coordinates, and they'll place you with a very high degree of accuracy on a genetic map featuring other users. Indeed, please feel free to post your scores and ancestry details in the comments below to help others get an idea of what their results might represent. My results are listed below. The scores put me squarely in Poland relative to those of other European samples I've run, which is correct.
That's just "another way" of looking at it - not the only way.
All of that is true for any ethnicity/admixture, whether they tell you up front and in plain terms or not.
That's just "another way" of looking at it - not the only way.
Right, but a service like Ancestry is going to hunt out and eliminate that "Iberian" result in their English testers (which they did) because it doesn't represent modern ancestry.
K36 must keep that Iberian percent because it is how the test physically maps people of English ancestry onto the British Islands, and not say, Norway.
So, while every ethnicity test should be viewed with a grain of salt, there are some tests that are specifically trying to guess your unique DNA admix, while others (like K36) are not. Part of getting the most out of the ever increasing number of ethnicity utilities is to point out these differences and explain how they work, both the similarities, and the differences.
Right, but a service like Ancestry is going to hunt out and eliminate that "Iberian" result in their English testers (which they did) because it doesn't represent modern ancestry.
Do they? Where do they say that? They used to show us the admixture of their samples and most groups had contributions from other regions, suggesting they did not eliminate it. Of course, they haven't shown us that data since the update.
Do they? Where do they say that? They used to show us the admixture of their samples and most groups had contributions from other regions, suggesting they did not eliminate it. Of course, they haven't shown us that data since the update.
Even if you are inclined to disagree with this specifically, I am nearly sure you would agree that a major result of the Ancestry update was the elimination trace regions and the noise they create.
Again, K36 does not, and will not do this, as those small percents are necessary x, y coordinates that are needed for the test to work as a geographic mapping tool. The small regions are not necessary for a service like Ancestry.......because again..........their test is designed to give you a different result, an estimation of your heritage by percent.
My point in all of this is that conversations that collapse these two tests (or others) into a singularity because all ethnicity tests deal with ethnicity isn't very helpful. There are enough differences between what these tests are trying to accomplish to emphasize their different strengths and weaknesses. For instance, a very admixed person could have some luck with a service like Ancestry, while K36 would likely be worthless. On the other hand, a non-admixed person will not only learn about themselves, but clearly see what genetic region their specific home place is a part of by looking at the darkest part of the heat map when charting K36 results.
Last edited by westsideboy; 03-06-2019 at 06:30 PM..
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