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Has anyone here found out their ancestor was a stowaway on a cargo ship called packet ships? How did you find out? Are there any records online or any other places I can access to determine if George Olley was one of them?
We guessed he was illiterate and most likely a peasant. He would have had a young child (was referred to as being an infant), John, sailing with him (bapt 1831 in Stanton, St. John's), and seems logical he sailed with his first wife, Barbara Carman (who else is going to take care of the kid?) Another thought is how would a small family with a crying child is going to be able to stowaway? I checked for her grave in England, Canada, and USA. She might have died on the ship. Don't know where to look for records of that. He married his second wife, Ann Hunter, in 1844, in Wilna, Jefferson, NY.
George, my 3X great grandfather, was born 1797 (he claimed, no proof) near Stanton town, Suffolk, cannot be located on ships passenger lists, heading for Canada or USA, in any time between 1832 and 1844. I used different variations of Olley in my searches. I have tried to find him in UK Censuses, found him in Jefferson, NY. I don't need to know anything about him once he reached USA and had family there but I don't know who his parents were and if he had siblings.
Note: there are several 1907 newspaper articles of him being the oldest man in NY, when George died but the information is not accurate because he did not sail on the Nell Gwynne, or watch the parade as a boy when Queen Victoria took the throne in 1837, as these articles claim. He was already 40 years old by then, not a boy.
It's been 20 years for me trying to locate those details and even longer than that by my aunt in the 60s and now cousins searching from NY state. Most of them have given up. I use in the excess of 25 websites in my research of all the branches of my tree.
Has anyone here found out their ancestor was a stowaway on a cargo ship called packet ships? How did you find out? Are there any records online or any other places I can access to determine if George Olley was one of them?
We guessed he was illiterate and most likely a peasant. He would have had a young child (was referred to as being an infant), John, sailing with him (bapt 1831 in Stanton, St. John's), and seems logical he sailed with his first wife, Barbara Carman (who else is going to take care of the kid?) Another thought is how would a small family with a crying child is going to be able to stowaway? I checked for her grave in England, Canada, and USA. She might have died on the ship. Don't know where to look for records of that. He married his second wife, Ann Hunter, in 1844, in Wilna, Jefferson, NY.
George, my 3X great grandfather, was born 1797 (he claimed, no proof) near Stanton town, Suffolk, cannot be located on ships passenger lists, heading for Canada or USA, in any time between 1832 and 1844. I used different variations of Olley in my searches. I have tried to find him in UK Censuses, found him in Jefferson, NY. I don't need to know anything about him once he reached USA and had family there but I don't know who his parents were and if he had siblings.
Note: there are several 1907 newspaper articles of him being the oldest man in NY, when George died but the information is not accurate because he did not sail on the Nell Gwynne, or watch the parade as a boy when Queen Victoria took the throne in 1837, as these articles claim. He was already 40 years old by then, not a boy.
It's been 20 years for me trying to locate those details and even longer than that by my aunt in the 60s and now cousins searching from NY state. Most of them have given up. I use in the excess of 25 websites in my research of all the branches of my tree.
Please recommend something.
Wish I could help but it's nothing I know anything about with my parents being immigrants in 57. I've never heard of packet ships, they originated from bringing mail and packages all over. They also used to haul passengers but you probably know all of this.
I personally don't see how they could stowaway, I'd think if anything, they'd be the cheapest class of passengers. Maybe he stowed away on his own but doubtful with wife and baby IMO but someone may say I'm wrong, that people did it all of the time.
According to the article below, I believe it said it took 30 days to come to America, 40 to sail back. Apparently low class passengers were given food but had to cook it themselves.
In 1818 the Red Star Line (not to be confused with the later steamboat line of the same name) was created. It was sometimes also variously referred to as the Second Line, the New Line and the Kermit Line, after an owner. Its first ships were the Panthea, the Meteor, the Hercules and the Manhattan. The Red Star packets left Liverpool on the 12th day of each month and left New York on the 25th.
Most immigrants from Britain and even Scandinavia sailed to New York from the ports of Liverpool or London, but other ports of departure for Europeans were LeHavre, France; Hamburg and Bremen in Germany; and Antwerp, Belgium. The voyages of most immigrants was in steerage. This area was often dark, dank and crowded. The passengers had to bring their own bedding for the bunks they were given. There was no “lounge” area or dining room, so they ate and slept in the same space. Food was provided by the line, but the passengers in steerage had to cook their own meals. If there were not enough passengers to take up the steerage space, cargo was added.
Have you researched the name Olley in England, anywhere near Stanton Town or in Suffolk? Could it be an alias? Is that a local name there? My “Miller” ancestor took that surname as an alias after jumping ship in NYC around 1854. He just suddenly appears in upstate NY around 1855 and served in the Civil War later.
Have you researched the name Olley in England, anywhere near Stanton Town or in Suffolk? Could it be an alias? Is that a local name there? My “Miller” ancestor took that surname as an alias after jumping ship in NYC around 1854. He just suddenly appears in upstate NY around 1855 and served in the Civil War later.
Thanks for the interesting information!
Yeah I've done the England thing and ships lists until I "passed out" (lol), periodically giving up because I wasn't yielding anything over the 20 years I have been looking!
I think my old man was hiding a lot of things. The timeline he supposedly gave reporters does not fit with world history timelines. He was the oldest man living in NY State and possibly the USA in 1906 before he died. He could have been deported or indentured to someone in the New World.
How did you find out that "Miller" had jumped ship? Can I find any immigrant documentation for stowaways too? Any idea what country or port he sailed from? How about naturalization records?
Yeah I've done the England thing and ships lists until I "passed out" (lol), periodically giving up because I wasn't yielding anything over the 20 years I have been looking!
I think my old man was hiding a lot of things. The timeline he supposedly gave reporters does not fit with world history timelines. He was the oldest man living in NY State and possibly the USA in 1906 before he died. He could have been deported or indentured to someone in the New World.
How did you find out that "Miller" had jumped ship? Can I find any immigrant documentation for stowaways too? Any idea what country or port he sailed from? How about naturalization records?
The bolded could be the case but indentured servitude was in decline in the late 1700s. He could have been a British soldier in Canada that went AWOL. There might be a military record to search. A few of my Irish ancestors were listed as being in the British army in Canada. The records had some basic information, dates, location, discharge, etc. Some were in Canada and some were in Spain fighting Napoleon. They were transported as soldiers but not recorded on passenger lists as far as I can tell.
My Miller ancestor (great grandpa) claimed to be from Bavaria but slipped up once or twice and said Ukraine. His story was that he jumped ship, with the ship owned by his father, causing him to hide and change his name. All official records say Bavaria. I suspect he was from a Black Sea German community. It is a dead end. The story is too vague to pursue since we don't know the real name.
The bolded could be the case but indentured servitude was in decline in the late 1700s. He could have been a British soldier in Canada that went AWOL. There might be a military record to search. A few of my Irish ancestors were listed as being in the British army in Canada. The records had some basic information, dates, location, discharge, etc. Some were in Canada and some were in Spain fighting Napoleon. They were transported as soldiers but not recorded on passenger lists as far as I can tell.
My Miller ancestor (great grandpa) claimed to be from Bavaria but slipped up once or twice and said Ukraine. His story was that he jumped ship, with the ship owned by his father, causing him to hide and change his name. All official records say Bavaria. I suspect he was from a Black Sea German community. It is a dead end. The story is too vague to pursue since we don't know the real name.
I know you've talked about him before in the one thread you started. Am I remembering right that Y-DNA would not help because he is not your direct paternal line?
Would you happen to have any envelopes that he, your grandmother or grandfather licked the envelope and/or stamp that you can eventually have them recover DNA from? That may be your only saving grace if My Heritage ever offers it like they announced about 3 years ago.
For both you and Kitty, there is a way to get DNA from other things like hair, teeth, dentures but it's very expensive. I have my dad's "ball caps" from when he worked, plus his retired one from monster garage. I also have his rescue squad hat that may have DNA. I think I have his eye glasses and dentures, I'm not sure if DNA can be gotten from dentures as they were probably put in a solution. I'm hoping that something I have will have DNA, I'm just waiting for the price to go down. I would assume it has compared to when DNA Doe Project figured out a way to get autosomal DNA done 5 years ago. It used to cost minimum of $5,000 to $10,000 depending on if they're successful or not.
I know you've talked about him before in the one thread you started. Am I remembering right that Y-DNA would not help because he is not your direct paternal line?
Would you happen to have any envelopes that he, your grandmother or grandfather licked the envelope and/or stamp that you can eventually have them recover DNA from? That may be your only saving grace if My Heritage ever offers it like they announced about 3 years ago.
For both you and Kitty, there is a way to get DNA from other things like hair, teeth, dentures but it's very expensive. I have my dad's "ball caps" from when he worked, plus his retired one from monster garage. I also have his rescue squad hat that may have DNA. I think I have his eye glasses and dentures, I'm not sure if DNA can be gotten from dentures as they were probably put in a solution. I'm hoping that something I have will have DNA, I'm just waiting for the price to go down. I would assume it has compared to when DNA Doe Project figured out a way to get autosomal DNA done 5 years ago. It used to cost minimum of $5,000 to $10,000 depending on if they're successful or not.
Interesting idea. I have nothing from him as he died over 130 years ago but I have some things from his son, my grandfather, come to think of it. If his DNA was half German or significantly Ashkenazi or Russian or Ukrainian it might confirm some things and his Y marker results might help. I have his straight razor, for example, and a few other things. It would cost a bunch just to have it analyzed to see if there was anything testable, let alone doing the tests.
I have a theory b or x or y on this ancestor and his secrets. He could be the source for my small amount of Ashkenazi DNA and he was married to a religious fanatic who had her bible cocked and knew how to use it - from old Huguenot and Mayflower stock. She drove her son, my grandfather, away from religion entirely and hundreds of miles away with her ranting, and molded a daughter in her own image. If old John Miller was part Ashkenazi she would have gone over the edge if she found out, so he may have made up the whole thing to keep the peace. He fought in the Wilderness campaign in the Civil War but likely didn’t want to take her on. She was a force of nature. My grandfather married “a Papist” Irish girl and she was almost unhinged by that.
Wish I could help but it's nothing I know anything about with my parents being immigrants in 57. I've never heard of packet ships, they originated from bringing mail and packages all over. They also used to haul passengers but you probably know all of this.
I personally don't see how they could stowaway, I'd think if anything, they'd be the cheapest class of passengers. Maybe he stowed away on his own but doubtful with wife and baby IMO but someone may say I'm wrong, that people did it all of the time.
According to the article below, I believe it said it took 30 days to come to America, 40 to sail back. Apparently low class passengers were given food but had to cook it themselves.
During my search, there is no mention of him on any ships lists on any shipping line. I checked crews lists too. I have gone back more than once to online recorded passenger lists to check if anything new had been posted. Ellis Island, Castle Garden, Vermont, Boston, NY, Halifax, New Brunswick, PEI, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Canada gov, etc.
Women and children were only identified by their husbands name. Mr. John Doe, and Mrs. Doe, and 1 child. There are no Olley, Ole, Ollie, Auley, Alley, etc that matches even somewhat or in different years.
Maybe that wasn't his surname when he boarded. There's a lot to think about!
I do have some ideas from reading replies to this thread. So thanks for that!
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