Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's pretty much it. It's a perception thing. One thing you will notice about the Midwest is that people who live in the northern portions of the Midwest (MN, WI, MI) don't think the southern portions (southern OH, IN, IL, MO, KS) are really part of the Midwest. People from the eastern portions of the Midwest (OH, IN, MI) don't think the western portions (KS, NE, SD, ND) are really part of the Midwest.
I live in Kansas, which is both in the southern and western portions of the Midwest. 90% of us who actually live in Kansas consider Kansas to be part of the Midwest. But to many people in the northern and eastern parts of the Midwest, Kansas is not part of the Midwest. Why? Because they consider where THEY live to be the "real" Midwest, so the farther away you are from where THEY live, the less Midwest you are.
The worst thing is when they put us in the South. Anyone with basic knowledge of U.S. history would never put Kansas in the South.
I agree with this 100 percent. No matter what you do or what you say, people are always going to use their definitions to define what you consider yourself.
Look at you guys, all running around in circles. I used to be like the rest of them, trying to define what is or isn't in a given place. But then, I realized that I'd never be able to definitively pinpoint these regions for obvious reasons. Still, it's fascinating watching others attempt to do so. I suppose that's the reason why these threads are so popular.
The ONLY surefire way to know what is or isn't in a given region would be to ask a resident of one of its cities/towns what he considers himself to be, and where he considers himself to live. If someone from Cairo, IL says he lives in the Midwest, then he lives in the Midwest. If someone from Newport, KY considers herself to live in the South, then she lives in the South.
You don't enter the South right when you leave St. Louis. It stays Midwestern for awhile, til you get to Cape Girardeau. The area in between is Midwestern. The accent is Midwestern, a large part of the population (sometimes 50%) is Catholic.
You don't enter the South right when you leave St. Louis. It stays Midwestern for awhile, til you get to Cape Girardeau. The area in between is Midwestern. The accent is Midwestern, a large part of the population (sometimes 50%) is Catholic.
The content on billboards is a very good indicator of where this line is. I think it is seen as not Midwestern much at all if the base of Midwestern is Great Lakes type. Also with accent to someone from the Great Lakes the accent is quite different so that also explains perception. (Midwest accents are several layers running east-west, the area between St.Louis and Cape Girardeau is the lowermost layer which is likely percived as Southern to people in the Great Lakes especially with NCVS)
The relgion issue is also interesting since the Catholicism seems to be different from most of the Midwest as well. It seems to be a stronger impact on culture and a more devout form than places North of the St. Louis area. I am wondering if this is due to being next to the Bible Belt? Do some of the religious billboards you see around the St. Louis area even exist anywhere else? I do notice you hit this boundary much faster going along I-44 than I-55 out of St. Louis, likely due to settlement patterns where a string of largely Catholic counties go South out of St. Louis along the river (also West up the Missouri River as well). I noticed along these rivers even in such counties the percentage of Catholics drops off noticibly once you are a few miles away from the rivers.
The content on billboards is a very good indicator of where this line is. I think it is seen as not Midwestern much at all if the base of Midwestern is Great Lakes type. Also with accent to someone from the Great Lakes the accent is quite different so that also explains perception. (Midwest accents are several layers running east-west, the area between St.Louis and Cape Girardeau is the lowermost layer which is likely percived as Southern to people in the Great Lakes especially with NCVS)
The relgion issue is also interesting since the Catholicism seems to be different from most of the Midwest as well. It seems to be a stronger impact on culture and a more devout form than places North of the St. Louis area. I am wondering if this is due to being next to the Bible Belt? Do some of the religious billboards you see around the St. Louis area even exist anywhere else? I do notice you hit this boundary much faster going along I-44 than I-55 out of St. Louis, likely due to settlement patterns where a string of largely Catholic counties go South out of St. Louis along the river (also West up the Missouri River as well). I noticed along these rivers even in such counties the percentage of Catholics drops off noticibly once you are a few miles away from the rivers.
I've been all over the South and I've never once seen an anti-abortion billboard. I assumed that it was more because of the Catholic influence because I started seeing them in Perry & Ste Genevieve counties which are both very Catholic (46% for Perry, 50% for Ste G) Also some of the billboards had the Virgin Mary on them. I even saw a few in St. Louis.
The accent was noticeably different starting in Cape Girardeau. I could hear a Midwestern accent. I have an ear for that kinda thing, my friends never noticed. They didn't even notice that people in St. Louis talk differently. Also, people seemed more reserved in the small towns between Cape & St. Louis. People in small Southern towns are more outgoing & friendly. Again, very subtle differences, I wouldn't expect the average person to notice.
I appreciate your effort in drawing and re-drawing this map, but in my opinion the boundaries of the Great Plains on your map are completely in error. The Great Plains does not extend east of Des Moines. No one who lives in Iowa east of Des Moines calls where they live the Great Plains. The Great Plains begin west of Des Moines. East of Des Moines is the Midwest. North of I-80 and east of I-35 in Iowa is upper Midwest. South of I-80 and east of I-35 in Iowa is lower Midwest.
Second, the Great Plains do not end at the Nebraska/South Dakota border. This map reflects the particular Minnesota desire to extend the boundaries of the Upper Midwest into the far western Dakotas. Minnesotans wrongly believe that Minnesota is the center of the upper Midwest, and Minnesota cannot be the "center" unless the western boundary is somewhere in the Dakotas. The truth is Minnesota is on the western edge of the upper Midwest, and most of North and South Dakota are in the Great Plains. The center of the upper Midwest is eastern Wisconsin.
The Great Plains is a cultural region.
I noticed this as well.
I agree with everything you said. I grew up in eastern Iowa and Des Moines. I was in Des Moines yesterday.
Never in 30 years have I ever heard anyone in Des Moines say they live in the Great Plains. It's not even a debate. You might say the Great Plains start in far western Iowa, but people in Iowa would probably agree on the Missouri River. Once you get east of there is very lush, green and there's corn/soybeans, etc.
Everything in Iowa from Des Moines to Iowa City and north would be the upper Midwest. Places south of I-80 are the lower midwest.
Growing up in Des Moines/Iowa City - we always looked more towards Minnesota and Wisconsin as our cultural neighbors. Not Missouri or Nebraska. Once you get out in far western Iowa or south of Iowa City-Des Moines though, you look south as opposed to north.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
