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I felt then that the America I had grown up in had irrevokably changed... and I was angry as hell. I still am. I have to admit with all the subsequent terror incidents around the world and the apparent acceptance of violence by Muslims in general, I have come to view them as the enemy.
Islamic terrorists are no more representative of most Muslims than the KKK and IRA are representative of most Christians.
People can make up a term "circular square" if they like, but there's still no such thing as a circular square --- even if you write up a Wikipedia entry. You can have a circle or you can have a square. But if you mix them, you have neither a circle nor a square.
Fascism does not mean what the pundits seem to think it means. People who keep throwing this term around seem to think that fascism = totalitarianism. That ain't so. Fascism is only one of many kinds of totalitarianism.
The radical Islamic fanatics causing so many problems right now are in no way fascists. You could perhaps call them theocrats if you like. You could certainly call them fanatics, zealots, totalitarian-wannabes, etc., but they aren't fascists.
Okie-doke, but if somebody created the term "circular square" to describe something, then it would become an accepted term even though it might not be technically correct usage of the individual words. Not sure if I expressed that correctly but it's not really worth arguing about anyway. I'd rather read some more stories about what people were doing that day. I appreciate your thoughts Mark S.
People can make up a term "circular square" if they like, but there's still no such thing as a circular square --- even if you write up a Wikipedia entry. You can have a circle or you can have a square. But if you mix them, you have neither a circle nor a square.
Fascism does not mean what the pundits seem to think it means. People who keep throwing this term around seem to think that fascism = totalitarianism. That ain't so. Fascism is only one of many kinds of totalitarianism.
The radical Islamic fanatics causing so many problems right now are in no way fascists. You could perhaps call them theocrats if you like. You could certainly call them fanatics, zealots, totalitarian-wannabes, etc., but they aren't fascists.
Not to debate you Mark S. as I have no desire to do so. However, you contradict yourself in your definition of fascism: "fascism = totalitarianism. That ain't so. Fascism is only one of many kinds of totalitarianism". So you say it's not but it is. Hmm. Unless you consider yourself above Random House Webster's Dictionary, the definition of Fascism is: "A totalitarian governmental system, sometimes led by a dictator and emphasizing aggressive nationalism, militarism, and often racism. The philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism, political group". By that definition, I stand by my use of the word. Also, when the KKK and IRA begin a worldwide campaign of terror for warped religious ideologies and seek to subjegate the earth, I'll consider them acceptable comparables. Unfortunately for your argument, as despicable as these groups are, they do not compare to Islamofascists.
So when my grandfather was in the Middle East during WWII and the natives were yelling "death to America' and calling him an infidel, you are saying that those people are just the minority?? Maybe these people just forgot 2000 years of crusades and wars? Or 40 years of the US supplying Israel with the planes and bombs killing their people?? Seems that the American people sure have.
WE as Americans were punished indiscriminately for the actions of our politicians regarding US foreign policy. Lets not forget that. The terrorists did not care that they killed civillians of different races and religions, from different countries.
Back on topic, Where was I?
I was woken up that morning after working night shift by my husband calling from work at the military base. I too thought it was some sick twisted movie.
I tried and tried to call my father, fearing that he was in Manhatten that day - took me 2 hours to get through. Spend the day packing my husband's bags in case he was deployed overseas.
The last 5 years in the military have been tough, lots of uncertainty and extra work. Active duty guys have it really rough and I feel for the guys out there. When you are hurt, people forget about you. 20 year old guys with double amputees are not good poster boys for a political campaign. Nor are the numerous guys who come back and commit suicide or have emotional issues. I have seen a little too much of both.
That's how I feel and I'm not here to please you. Feel as you do, that's fine with me. Sorry you find my view "scary". I find Islamic fascists scarier.
I just want to understand where you are coming from.
You promote hate against Muslims in general because they are all "Islamofascists" -- correct? This is the way I read your original post.
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Regarding the original topic of this post, I woke up to news radio with the first tower already hit. To me, it felt surreal, like something out of a movie. Of course, I live in Southern California and I know the LAPD has had plans for a terrorist attack since the 1980s when Los Angeles hosted the Olympics, so I wasn't terribly concerned that something would happen here. After all, California has disasters all the time. The "no fly" days were kind of weird because there actually were a few planes flying. (I always wondered who they were.) We also live near an airport and we could hear the little fighter jets scrambling every once in a while. We had to work that day even though no one felt like being there.
However, you contradict yourself in your definition of fascism: "fascism = totalitarianism. That ain't so. Fascism is only one of many kinds of totalitarianism". So you say it's not but it is. Hmm.
You are straining a gnat to swallow a camel.
Yes, fascism is one form of totalitarianism. But it isn't the ONLY kind. Any kind of political or economic system can become totalitarian. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian Socialist state. Many medieval societies had totalitarian feudal states. That doesn't mean that fascism, socialism, and feudalism are all the same thing. Totalitarianism is an encompassing term. Fascism is rather specific.
Look at it like this: Pepper is a spice. Cumin is a spice. That does not mean that pepper and cumin are the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark
Unless you consider yourself above Random House Webster's Dictionary, the definition of Fascism is: "A totalitarian governmental system, sometimes led by a dictator and emphasizing aggressive nationalism, militarism, and often racism. The philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism, political group".
Radical Islamic terrorists do not fit that definition. Al Qaida and their ilk are not promoting any form of aggressive nationalism. Their aims go beyond any sort of nationalism. They are promoting an aggressive interpretation of a radical branch of their religion.
Call them theocrats if you like. But they aren't fascists. Even by Random House and Webster's definition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark
Also, when the KKK and IRA begin a worldwide campaign of terror for warped religious ideologies and seek to subjegate the earth, I'll consider them acceptable comparables. Unfortunately for your argument, as despicable as these groups are, they do not compare to Islamofascists.
There's no such thing as an Islamofascist. Radical Islamic theocrats, terrorists, nut jobs and crazies...? Yes. But fascists? No.
So when my grandfather was in the Middle East during WWII and the natives were yelling "death to America' and calling him an infidel, you are saying that those people are just the minority??
Given the West's disastrous foreign policy of the last 150 years, no, I doubt that sentiment is a minority. Lots of people in the Middle East (and not just Muslims) feel that way. The Iraq war and policies of the Bush Administration have only made that worse.
But people who are willing to commit acts of terrorism against innocent civilians? Yes, I do think such people are an extreme minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winnie
WE as Americans were punished indiscriminately for the actions of our politicians regarding US foreign policy. Lets not forget that. The terrorists did not care that they killed civillians of different races and religions, from different countries.
Excellent point, and I agree 100%. But let us not become a monster in fighting the monsters. Just because a handful of crazy zealots murdered thousands of innocent people on 9/11 does not give us the license to murder thousands of innocent people in retaliation. There's a world of difference between justice and vengeance. Justice we must have. Vengeance is not ours to dole out.
We must be tough and ruthless on terrorism. But we have to be smart.
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You can have a circle or you can have a square. But if you mix them, you have neither a circle nor a square.
Not sure if I expressed that correctly but it's not really worth arguing about anyway. 
I'd rather read some more stories about what people were doing that day. I appreciate your thoughts Mark S.
Circular squares...
Nor are the numerous guys who come back and commit suicide or have emotional issues. I have seen a little too much of both.
Guys!
stop - stop the world & let me off
