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One thing that almost nobody talks about that is absolutely different between places North and South (but is a bit more muted in this country, the way it geographically stretches more East to West than North to South), is the angle of the sun.
It can get to 100 degrees and hotter almost anywhere in this country, especially East of the Cascades, but 100 degrees with a sun angle 25 degrees deviation from overhead feel MUCH different than the same temperature with the sun directly over your head (0 degree deviation from center)! I feel absolutely exausted sitting outside in the sun when the sun angle is high enough, including northern Ohio, regardless of the outside ambient air temperature.
So when we talk about "hot" and "cold", sun angle plays a factor, as does cloud cover (temps are ALWAYS measured in the shade, so if it's 20 degrees but the sun it out, it can feel like 50 degrees during months like March), humidity/dew point, wind speed, ocean/lake moderation, elevation, etc.
It's not as black vs. white as people like to think it is (or in this case, North vs. South).
^^Just b/c the annual minimums are similar (there is a 10 degree tolerance in there), that doesn't mean the climates are similar.
That's exactly right. The maps are a great guide especially for growing plants, but it does not tell you how long the heat or cold will last in a given area.
I looked up the NOAA website for some of the cities mentioned on this thread. As you can see Miami and Atlanta already seems to be heading toward summer weather even though it is only April 1. In contrast we actually had snow here on Long Island yesterday.
First temperature in degrees at 11AM and the second is the expected High temperature. 4-1-2014
As I've stated before, the only part of the south that really sees a winter that can be compared to that of the north is the inland areas well into the continent, such as the Appalachian region. The Coastal South is pure subtropical paradise, with a warm climate that can grow all kinds of plants. Winter weather events, and extreme cold, such as that seen this past winter are highly unusual. You can see palms like CIDPs, queens, washingtonias, sabal palmettos, and even Royals (in Texas and Florida). Citrus plants, sugar cane, rice, cotton, and other crops can be grown with ease in this coastal south region, along with vegeation like hibiscus, oleanders, etc. Even tropical plants can be grown in many areas of the coastal south, especially in Texas and Florida. There are lots of deep subtropical jungles in the region, lush, evergreen water-worlds with huge trees draped with spanish moss.
Weather in the coastal south is subtropical paradise with nice lukewarm winters, and nice hot summers that is good for the beach. Winter only merely visits the Coastal South at best, before it is driven out by the warmth, that then stays put. Lots of warm, sunny days in the middle of winter. In contrast, the North in general is a miserable place during winter, where clouds and gray, and snow dominate the landscape much of the time. The fall colors are pretty, but then all winter, you are stuck with a dead landscape.
Until the North has deep subtropical jungles draped with spanish moss, until the northern cities can grow CIDPs, Dates, queens, hibiscus, citrus, rice, and other subtropical plants effortlessly, and until Northern cities have AVERAGE winter lows above the 40s, and AVERAGE winter highs above 60, there is no way that ANYONE with even the slightest bit of SENSE can claim that the North is not much different than the South climate-wise.
Lol, you exaggerate a lot. Many of the palms including Queens, Washingtonia, and CIDP are dead or dying right now in the South, and you know it.
Average temp wise and snowfall stats, yes the South is quite a bit warmer, but the extremes that come every so many years are very severe in the South.
All you need do is go onto any subtropical gardening forum, and you will hear the horror stories of what was killed this winter. Just about every Queen palm in Mobile, Pensacola, Savannah, Charleston, etc was killed. All the CIDP's in Savannah, Charleston, Mobile, etc, etc. are full of totally burned fronds and look dead. Loads of citrus was probably killed. Many other plants all over the coastal South, let alone inland, were killed or severely damaged. This winter was bad, but wasn't as bad as happened in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Every so many years the South gets hit with arctic cold that would shock even people in China and Europe. The record low in Shanghai is higher than in Charleston, despite the averages in Shanghai being colder. The thing that wrecks the US South subtropical climate is the extreme arctic cold that comes every 10 to 20 years, and you know it. People in Sydney Australia never lose a tree like people in the South.
These things never happen in just about every other subtropical climate in the world, even at much higher latitudes than the US South is located at. US has major climate fail given the latitude, mostly because of the Rocky Mountains and how they cause the jetstream to plunge way down into eastern N. America.
And one other thing. The low this past winter in Grand Bay, AL right down on the Gulf Coast, was 12F. Think about that. Philly the low was 3F. Really that different?
When it comes to extreme arctic cold, the South gets hit just as hard as the North. And it is not rare, it happens every 20 years or so. That isn't that rare in climate science or weather terms.
^^Just b/c the annual minimums are similar (there is a 10 degree tolerance in there), that doesn't mean the climates are similar.
True but technically, Philly is classified in the same climate zone and plant hardiness zone as much of the South-humid subtropical 7A. I do agree though that there are differences, especially in regard to the length of the Winter and how much snow there is.
But I used to think that moving from Philly to somewhere as far South as North Carolina would result in a much warmer climate in Winter, but really that is not always the case.
He resides in some bizarre dream world of the South being a subtropical paradise. Anywhere else at the latitude of the South and at sea level is much more subtropical, due to the lack of the arctic fronts which hit the South every year. In reality, temps in the South fluctuate all over the place. In Charleston one day is in the 40's and then a week later temps are the 60's. Of course the average looks great, but doesn't tell the story of how unstable the climate is in the eastern US. He ignores all of this and just keeps blabbing about a "subtropical paradise". Just a game for him.
True but technically, Philly is classified in the same climate zone and plant hardiness zone as much of the South-humid subtropical 7A. I do agree though that there are differences, especially in regard to the length of the Winter and how much snow there is.
But I used to think that moving from Philly to somewhere like North Carolina would result in a much warmer climate in Winter, but really that is not the case.
Places in eastern NC got colder than Philadelphia this past winter. All of the South is just as much of a continental climate as the North. Their average temps are higher, but they fluctuate all over the place all winter.
Places in eastern NC got colder than Philadelphia this past winter. All of the South is just as much of a continental climate as the North. Their average temps are higher, but they fluctuate all over the place all winter.
Yeah, that's true. Honestly I don't know if I'd appreciate the 80+ right now like in Atlanta. I love Summer and hot temps but I need some 60s and 70s Spring time first haha. Atlanta had a low of 29 just last Wednesday and will have highs in the 80s this week.
I think there are many different climates in The North as well as The South though so it's not as well defined as N or S-it is really more coastal versus non-coastal in the North and then in the South it seems to get warmer as you go further South no matter if you're coastal or not.
I am from Maryland, where we have a wintertime, and often get highs in the upper 20's. We also have a hot summer with frequent stretches of temperatures in the low 90's. But when I lived just across the border of upstate New York, the climate was like night and day. Yes, we have winter days that can match those of that region, but on average it is very cold for us. While in Maryland it might be 25F for couple of days, it usually then go up to 40s later in the week. In upstate New York it is normal for temperatures to be below freezing for weeks. Those days of temperatures in the 20's are not the norm and are not consistent in their frequency and duration. Long prolonged cold temperatures change something inside of your mind or body, and you will never look at winter the same again. Having a couple days of 12 degrees like we did in December this year, is totally different from having temperatures in the teens and 20's for weeks on end. I don't think there's anywhere in south where people would consider 45 degrees a break during wintertime.
Temperature aside, we also have to factor in the fact that the amount of sunlight decreases the further north we go, and this plays a big role in how hot it feels outside. Sunny and 75F is quite different from 75F and cloudy, and that sun in Boston just doesn't bear down on you the same way it does in Georgia. The combination of prolonged cold and lack sunlight makes the northern winter changes something inside of your mind and body, and you will never look at winter the same again. This is something that a southerner who hasn't actually lived in a colder climate would understand. And I'm not talking about borderline climates like Philadelphia or Baltimore, or the mildest anomalies like NYC, I'm talking about the solidly northern climate places like Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Minneapolis or Milwaukee, when compared to definitively southern places like Atlanta, New Orleans, Nashville, Miami, and Jacksonville.
This isn't a conscious decision I made to take sides on a north vs south issue, it's just the reality of how your body feels when it is subjected to a particular climate for long periods. Because of this obvious difference in climate my grandparents like countless other northerners decided to move from New Jersey to Georgia to retire. If the climate wasn't that different they wouldn't have gone to the south. They are not huge fans of southern culture or food, they moved there for the more hospitable climate. It seems that one of the primary reasons, if not the primary reason, for northerners to move south is for better weather.
^^Just b/c the annual minimums are similar (there is a 10 degree tolerance in there), that doesn't mean the climates are similar.
Yea, if you thought the map referred to climate zones, you'd conclude southeast coastal Alaska is in the same climate zone as Atlanta. All the map tells you is how whether cold-intolerant plants can survive, ignoring other factors.
Yea, if you thought the map referred to climate zones, you'd conclude southeast coastal Alaska is in the same climate zone as Atlanta. All the map tells you is how whether cold-intolerant plants can survive, ignoring other factors.
Yeah and you can grow oranges in central Florida but I highly doubt they'd bear fruit in Brookings, Oregon, despite being the same hardiness zone.
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All the map tells you is how whether cold-intolerant plants can survive, ignoring other factors.
