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I would say every city in the West has a 'poseur' outdoor culture that greatly outnumbers its 'active' outdoor culture.
Just because you see someone at Starbucks in a $300 Marmot shell shouldering an Osprey daypack with a Nalgene bottle carabined to it does not mean you are going to see them up on the mountain.
Looking like you spend 100 nights a year under the stars is definitely a kind of chic in most cities out West, but it is funny how pristine all this outdoor clothing looks week after week, year after year.
A lot of these folks are the functional equivalent of the long-bearded, flannel wearing lumbersexual who has only a vague idea of which end of an axe to swing at a tree.
Bernie is not a liberal, he is a social democrat. They have similar aims and are on the same side of the political specturm, but liberals are far more involved in identity politics, whereas social democrats are economy wonks.
Notably, Kenmore, along with Williamsville, are exactly the areas of Buffalo we are considering. I love Lakewood, too, although the whole Cleveland area a bit less so.
OP, I was just thinking and if you are open to Syracuse, you also have the Eastwood neighborhood. It is a walkable neighborhood that gets pretty good public(bus) transportation coverage along its main street. It also has a couple of bookstores and a local library branch. It is more of an economic mix, but makes up about 11% of the city's population. There is also another Wegmans nearby.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "crunchy" in the usual sense, but you do have a decent mix of people in that area of town, while fulfilling the other aspects you are looking for.
I can't convince you to like Pittsburgh but I still think your assessment is incorrect and it would be your best bet. No matter what city you choose as soon as you get out to the outer burbs and rural areas you'll find yourself in MAGA country. That doesn't mean the majority of the city is. Or that it will have any affect on your life whatsoever.
Burlington, VT (too small?)
Madison, WI
Ithaca, NY (too small?)
Santa Fe, NM
Ann Arbor, MI
Portland, ME
America isn't the most scholarly place. Outside the East Coast you're not going to find cities with a bookish feel as easily as Europe. Your time spent abroad may have changed your expectations.
Be very careful here. I lived in one of these towns, and it turned out to be the least diverse, most insufferable place. There is a group-think in these small "intellectual" towns that really manages to squeeze out original and critical thinking. Very self-satisfied and narrow minded. But, oh boy, don't even try explaining this to them.
I think you'd be much better off in Buffalo or Pittsburgh (or larger metro). We moved to Pittsburgh last year (South Hills, I beg your pardon!) and enjoy the diversity of thought and opinion. It's not the Agora, but people aren't afraid to tell you how they really feel without diminishing your own views. The conservatism that does exist is much more of a Libertarianism than one based on identity politics or fundamentalism. I have to disagree with the person who said there's no need to travel outside Allegheny County. Unless, of course, you have no interest history or the environment or recreation: the Underground Railroad (Washington Co.), Fallingwater, Ohioplye SP (Fayette Co.), Meadowcroft (Greene Co.), Old Economy Village (Butler Co.), Powdermill Nature Reserve (Westmoreland Co.), etc.
Last edited by Charley Barker; 08-16-2018 at 12:50 PM..
Like I said, I don't think Milwaukee fits all your criteria but my little suburb of Shorewood is THE BEST!! We're an urban-suburb neighboring east Milwaukee and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. We have our own amazing beach on Lake Michigan, a two story grocery store walkable from anywhere in town, restaurants, cafes, a nice library, great schools (I gather that's not a concern for you but does help maintain home values), quick access to downtown without ever requiring a highway, bike paths, two beer gardens, great architecture mostly from the 1920s, and suburban trees. We're just not "woodsy". There's a Trader Joe's about 2 miles north (along the bus route), a Whole Foods a few miles south (which can be accessed by bus) and a Natural Outpost about a mile west (along another bus route).
We have one car for our family of four and we use it once or twice a week at best. Hubby and I ride the bus or bike to work in downtown Milwaukee, the kids walk to school, we walk for groceries or out to eat, etc.
The hubby and I had to walk down to the grocery store after we put our kids to bed around 9:00 last night and we passed at least a dozen people out along the main st out walking. Music was playing at the local brewery/bar type place and people were out drinking and socializing al fresco. Nothing too rowdy (We're within earshot of Draft & Vessel) and we can't hear them from inside the house.
Something to consider if Milwaukee has never crossed your radar.
Be very careful here. I lived in one of these towns, and it turned out to be the least diverse, most insufferable place. There is a group-think in these small "intellectual" towns that really manages to squeeze out original and critical thinking. Very self-satisfied and narrow minded. But, oh boy, don't even try explaining this to them.
I think you'd be much better off in Buffalo or Pittsburgh (or larger metro). We moved to Pittsburgh last year (South Hills, I beg your pardon!) and enjoy the diversity of thought and opinion. It's not the Agora, but people aren't afraid to tell you how they really feel without diminishing your own views. The conservatism that does exist is much more of a Libertarianism than one based on identity politics or fundamentalism. I have to disagree with the person who said there's no need to travel outside Allegheny County. Unless, of course, you have no interest history or the environment or recreation: the Underground Railroad (Washington Co.), Fallingwater, Ohioplye SP (Fayette Co.), Meadowcroft (Greene Co.), Old Economy Village (Butler Co.), Powdermill Nature Reserve (Westmoreland Co.), etc.
How would Buffalo compare with Pittsburgh, especially with regards to the sorts of things we're looking for?
How would Buffalo compare with Pittsburgh, especially with regards to the sorts of things we're looking for?
I've only been to Buffalo a few times, but these are the major differences:
1. Buffalo is a much smaller metro, so there's less of everything.
2. The semi-gentrified, middle-class portion of the city is much smaller (basically a band which runs north from Allentown to the edge of city limits).
3. Buffalo's suburbs in general are more uniformly Republican than Pittsburgh's. Less walkable overall too. I think Kenmore might have some of what you're looking for, in that it's left-leaning and walkable. Amherst is blue due to the influence from SUNY Buffalo, but it's more of a traditional suburb. All the other suburbs are Republican, and mostly sprawly.
4. The far rural hinterland in Western New York is Republican, but it's a bit less heavily Republican than the rural hinterland in Western Pennsylvania.
How would Buffalo compare with Pittsburgh, especially with regards to the sorts of things we're looking for?
Buffalo offers a chance for access to a larger area in Toronto/Golden Horseshoe and has another 1 million person metro adjacent to it. That means that between the continuous areas, there is about 10-12 million people.
Keep in mind that the Buffalo metro has half the people as the Pittsburgh metro, but the Pittsburgh metro is about a little more than 3 times bigger in land size. In fact, you could also put the adjacent Rochester area along with the Buffalo area in terms of land size into the Pittsburgh metro and there would still be room left over. So, while there is a difference in terms of size, when putting it into perspective in terms of tit for tat area size, there actually isn’t much difference in terms of population.
As mentioned, within Buffalo, pretty much west of Main Street up to about Richmond Avenue is the target area. However, if you go north of Buffalo city limits, the density actually doesn’t taper off too much and includes the previously mentioned village of Kenmore. Look up city neighborhoods such as Parkside, North Buffalo/North Park/Hertel Avenue, Central Park, Elmwood Village, West Village, Linwood and Park Meadow, in that area.
There are some middle class pockets in other parts of the city(outer South Buffalo, far NE corner next to Cheektowaga), which is only 40 square miles(Pittsburgh is 55 square miles).
You also have multiple amusement parks(Darien Lake, Fantasy Island, Marineland across the border and Seabreeze in Rochester), Niagara Falls, 2 Great Lakes, the Finger Lakes, historical sites and state parks nearby as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-17-2018 at 08:03 AM..
Buffalo offers a chance for access to a larger area in Toronto/Golden Horseshoe and has another 1 million person metro adjacent to it. That means that between the continuous areas, there is about 10-12 million people.
Keep in mind that the Buffalo metro has half the people as the Pittsburgh metro, but the Pittsburgh metro is about a little more than 3 times bigger in land size. In fact, you could also put the adjacent Rochester area along with the Buffalo area in terms of land size into the Pittsburgh metro and there would still be room left over. So, while there is a difference in terms of size, when putting it into perspective in terms of tit for tat area size, there actually isn’t much difference in terms of population.
As mentioned, within Buffalo, pretty much west of Main Street up to about Richmond Avenue is the target area. However, if you go north of Buffalo city limits, the density actually doesn’t taper off too much and includes the previously mentioned village of Kenmore. Look up city neighborhoods such as Parkside, North Buffalo/North Park/Hertel Avenue, Central Park, Elmwood Village, West Village, Linwood and Park Meadow, in that area.
There are some middle class pockets in other parts of the city(outer South Buffalo, far NE corner next to Cheektowaga), which is only 40 square miles(Pittsburgh is 55 square miles).
You also have multiple amusement parks(Darien Lake, Fantasy Island, Marineland across the border and Seabreeze in Rochester), Niagara Falls, 2 Great Lakes, the Finger Lakes, historical sites and state parks nearby as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-17-2018 at 01:06 PM..
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