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Out of state migrants? Who cares? Even if space aliens move into North Carolina, it doesn't make North Carolina part of another planet.
There's a common argument amongst people that if an area seems to be influenced by anything but poor white conservatives it is less Southern. Of course they do not say it like that directly, using a more politically correct phrasing, but this is essentially what they mean.
This is a pretty racist belief in my opinion, in multiple ways. First it indicates that white people have and continue to have the most influence over the South, which is true historically but growing more falsely by the day in modern times. Second, it totally negates the truth in that the South has and will probably always will be the most racially diverse geographic megaregion of the US with cities like Atlanta, Miami, Houston, etc. and that their contributions to the region simply do not matter such as the invention of jazz, hip-hop, the civil rights movement, etc. Third, it also indicates that as a white person if you are anything but a redneck you are not as Southern because you have achieved "success" (which I will define as not being in poverty for this case) which again, is false. You do not have to be a hillbilly or a swampbilly (for our Floridian and Louisianan kind) to be a Southerner. It also defines as any progressive movement as non-Southern which is also false, again the Civil Rights Movement, but also the things that we as American workers also benefit from like the 40 hour work week and no child labor laws mostly started from strikes of poor redneck miners in West Virginia. That is one of the least conservative movements the US has ever seen and guess what, started in the South.
A really common example of this is the phrase "Florida is less Southern the further south you go". Miami is yes, a minority-majority city skewed towards the Latino population, very large city built around tropical tourism and a rich person's playground. None of that negates that Miami is still a part of Florida, a Southern state. Miami is just as Floridian as Tallahassee is.
Texas is just as Southern with cities like Dallas and Houston and Austin being well, Austin, doesn't change that. Especially if you factor in that just down the road is the Alamo for Texan independence from Mexico. If you want to base being Southern as states going on secession wars in defense of slavery then Texas has done it twice and in that context may arguably make it more "Southern" than literally every other Southern state. Texas experiencing a bombardment of people from elsewhere doesn't change that Texas was part of the confederacy and left Mexico even before that so it could still have slaves. This is why I have never considered Texas to be a Southwestern state like Arizona and New Mexico because they share wildly different histories with their only thing in common being they were once part of Old Mexico.
So yes North Carolina is a Southern state. The state having a lot of excellent higher education institutions, lots of research labs and what not a trait the Research Triangle shares with the pinnacle of non-Southernness of... Boston... does not change that.
It’s hard to say it’s not the South when it’s surrounded by southern states. However, culturally it may be less southern and there’s actually a long history of that. My understanding is they only barely voted to leave the Union during the Civil War.
Alabama and Georgia barely passed secession, as they had sizable populations in non-plantation regions. The way the people at large voted, it was about 50-50 for them via the method of vote (straight vote in the two states probably wouldn't have passed), but Florida and Mississippi seceding mid-convention swayed some of the electors in Alabama. Then Georgia followed soon after. Otherwise, the two would be surrounded outside of their northern borders, which were the most difficult borders to traverse.
Ironically, Florida seceded partially because it thought Alabama and Georgia were going to, but Florida basically guaranteed it by seceding pre-emptively. (Granted, it's easy to believe it would've happened just based off the bravado of the fire eaters.)
Admittedly, I might be biased, based on where I live; but to me, the heart of the Mid-Atlantic is Maryland. Thus, other states may be considered part of the Mid-Atlantic based on their proximity to Maryland. Delaware, for sure. Pennsylvania, yeah, pretty much. New Jersey, I suppose so, though it's a bit of a stretch. Ditto for Virginia. And that's it. That's the Mid-Atlantic right there. Not New York, not North Carolina, not West Virginia, not anywhere else.
A really common example of this is the phrase "Florida is less Southern the further south you go". Miami is yes, a minority-majority city skewed towards the Latino population, very large city built around tropical tourism and a rich person's playground. None of that negates that Miami is still a part of Florida, a Southern state. Miami is just as Floridian as Tallahassee is.
Well, yes and no. True, Miami is an intrinsic part of Florida, and Florida is a Southern state. But culturally speaking, Miami is not a Southern city in the same way that Atlanta and Birmingham and Charlotte are. That doesn't mean that Miami doesn't make its own unique contributions to the region we know as the South. But culturally speaking, it's an outlier. Jacksonville, located about 350 miles to the north, feels more Southern than Miami does. (Heck, Jacksonville feels more like South Georgia than North Florida; but that's neither here nor there.)
Admittedly, I might be biased, based on where I live; but to me, the heart of the Mid-Atlantic is Maryland. Thus, other states may be considered part of the Mid-Atlantic based on their proximity to Maryland. Delaware, for sure. Pennsylvania, yeah, pretty much. New Jersey, I suppose so, though it's a bit of a stretch. Ditto for Virginia. And that's it. That's the Mid-Atlantic right there. Not New York, not North Carolina, not West Virginia, not anywhere else.
If proximity to Maryland is the criteria, how is Virginia "a bit of a stretch"?
Geographically North Carolina is the South, but culturally it's now Southern vs Northeastern. This cultural shift already happened in Virginia with Northern Virginia having more in common with the Northeast than the South.
Going by these silly definitions, pretty soon all that will be left of the south will be Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.
Georgia, Florida and Texas have all been receiving lots of out of state transplants.
I'm going to ask what I always ask in these threads, why is it that transplants only affect the south? East
Why did the midwest remain the midwest when lots of southern moved to the midwest? When Midwesterns pushed into the Western states why didn't the west turn middle east?
Places evolve, let's not over analyze every change. The Wild Wild West days are gone, the burning of women because of paranoia in the Northeast are gone. But those places were never bastions of sameness to begin with.
Stop trying to pigeon-hole regions into uniform blocks. They never were.
The south is a region that shared variations of similar history and is sharing variations of similar present times.
If North Carolina isn't southern, then the term has become obsolete
Transplants are fine if they assimilate, but too many transplants can ruin a state long term, changing the culture, lifestyle, and environment forever. People have to realize that America is huge and our states are more like "mini countries", with their own cultures, lifestyles, accents, foods, etc. You could be living a totally different life than someone in your neighboring state, the difference is even bigger when speaking of regions such as the South vs Northeast.
Last edited by NearFantastica; 10-22-2022 at 05:28 PM..
Transplants are fine when kept to a minimum and if they assimilate, but too many transplants can ruin a state long term, changing the culture, lifestyle, and environment forever. People have to realize that America is huge and our states are more like "mini countries", with their own cultures, lifestyles, accents, foods, etc
Meh, if the culture is worth saving it will survive.
Things change. We can't possibly measure a culture based on how it was 150 years ago.
I'm all for nostalgia, but there a reason that from the dozens of species that made up the Genus Homo, we are the only ones left. Its because we are highly adaptable. Its what we do. I would think if early humans didn't adapt, didn't keepp migrating, keep mixing things up they might have gone the way of the Denisovans or the Neanderthals.
Places rich in culture, such as Boston or New Orleans, is that way because of transplants, not by sticking to one influence.
You are right. To some the transplants may ruin a place. To others they make it better.
Geographically North Carolina is the South, but culturally it's now Southern vs Northeastern. This cultural shift already happened in Virginia with Northern Virginia having more in common with the Northeast than the South.
Theres very little northeastern culture though. I guess maybe hockey, though we tailgate it like it’s a football game. We have northeastern transplants (as well as Midwestern), but I don’t think anyone is confusing Charlotte for Philadelphia or Raleigh for Boston.
Though on a broader scale, there is some homogenization going on of the US as a whole. Internet and tv and moving vans have made things blurrier than they were in 1950 or 1910 or 1870.
If proximity to Maryland is the criteria, how is Virginia "a bit of a stretch"?
Yeah, good point. I was picturing the southern parts of the state when I wrote that, but in looking at states as a whole, then yes, Virginia is certainly Mid-Atlantic.
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