What is the most quintessential state in the South? (how much, college)
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This is not entirely true. Savannah and Athens are pretty liberal areas that are quite different from Alabama and Mississippi. Far north Georgia has more of an authentic Appalachia culture which is closer to East Tennessee or Western NC. In general Georgia is very much its own state, some parts are very traditional old deep south. Some less so.
Agreed. Though regarding Atlanta, as a mostly post-bellum city it never had much of an "Old South" culture to begin with, so the other comment about Old South shifting to New South I would more aptly categorize as just firmly New South. At least for that part of Georgia.
To the extent that Georgia is dominated by the Atlanta metro, I would place Georgia slightly behind South Carolina and Alabama myself. Outside of Atlanta it is obviously more "traditionally Southern," but because of Atlanta's dominating influence on the state as a whole, I would say Georgia is a bit of an outlier for the South. Same for Chicago and Illinois. The latter I would probably not nominate as most quintessentially Midwestern if this was for the Midwest.
Agreed. Though regarding Atlanta, as a mostly post-bellum city it never had much of an "Old South" culture to begin with, so the other comment about Old South shifting to New South I would more aptly categorize as just firmly New South. At least for this part of Georgia.
That was me. That's why I said Georgia. Atlanta is most representative of the new south. Diverse, busy, but still southern.
Virginia with more votes than Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi and North Carolina. Funny as I think it's the least southern in this poll.
*Edit, Virginia has the 4th most votes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro
Yeah, that's very questionable to say the least. I'm willing to bet nearly 50% of VA's population wouldn't even consider themselves southern.
Virginia for most of US history has been the quintessential southern state. When you thought of the south you thought of Tobacco. Cotton was never a recognizable brand as Tobacco and Tobacco was a popular brand before cotton and still a big brand after cotton.
To me when I think of the south I think of that area from North Carolina to Virginia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118
Based on this, the answer is Georgia - followed by Alabama, then South Carolina.
Alabama's middling growth balances out the high growth rates of the likes of TX/FL and the stagnant rates of MS/LA. It's literally halfway between Georgia's and Mississippi's growth rate. It has both boomtowns and notably dying areas as well.
Historically, it's close enough to Georgia to actually be relevant to early American history (Aaron Burr), while also having been part of the American frontier when the US was a country (So both some long established areas, like Mobile as well as new settlement. Though Mobile was barely there around statehood, by 1840 it was getting to be a smaller city for the time.). Timewise, it's got colonial Mobile on the coast, antebellum Montgomery on the coastal plains, industrial Birmingham in the Appalachians (feels like foothills, but mineral-wise, is more akin to Appalachian proper, and had a definite effect on development) and space age Huntsville in Appalachian foothills proper. It's relevant to pretty much any major southern historical event: Trail of Tears (only state with territory from four of the five "civilized tribes"); Civil War (initial capitol, both naval and land battles, though none defining); and the Civil Rights Movement (prominent figures on both sides; legally acted alternatively as well, with rulings like Gomillion v. Lightfoot on one side, and Browder v. Gayle on the other at more state level courts).
Accent-wise, it's about 50/50 between the rough categories of Upper South/Appalachian accents and Lower South accents. It's got links to French, British and Spanish colonial efforts. It's got historic music towns (Muscle Shoals), college football (Alabama, Auburn), NASCAR (Talladega), and military towns (Huntsville for techy military, Dothan/Montgomery area for more traditional). It's got rural Black Belt and rural white Appalachia. Anything you associate with the South, you can probably find an approximation somewhere in Alabama.
* It's purple/politically divided, home to both MTG and Jimmy Carter, Newt Gingrich and John Lewis, Stone Mountain (Civil War) and the King Center (Civil Rights)
* It's Old South and New South, Deep South and Upper South
* Atlanta is quite representative of modern metropolitan life in the South and America at large in pretty much all facets both good and bad (housing, crime, jobs/economy, amenities, etc)
* Growing ethnic/racial diversity
* Popular culture, in which the South has always had an outsized influence, in is very much represented (music, film/TV, college and pro sports, etc)
* Mountains and beaches
* Popular types of Southern tourist destinations (Savannah, Atlanta, etc)
* Heavy military representation
* Just about every kind of college/university in the South is represented
* Labor Day weekend in metro Atlanta literally has something for everybody (more of an American thing than strictly Southern)
* Home to both Alpharetta and Albany, which are about as diametrically opposed as it gets and representative of both suburban affluence and rural/small-town decline that's present in the South
* Wide variety of traditional Southern cuisine
Virginia for most of US history has been the quintessential southern state. When you thought of the south you thought of Tobacco. Cotton was never a recognizable brand as Tobacco and Tobacco was a popular brand before cotton and still a big brand after cotton.
Say what? I've heard of the term "King Cotton" but never "King Tobacco." Cotton was strongly associated with the South not just in America but globally. I can't think of a non-Southern state that was a big producer of cotton but tobacco was also big in the border state of MD and the New England state of CT.
I'd say Virginia was the outlier in the South in many respects. It had more ties to the North and it's major historical figures were arguably more American than Southern in identity (Patrick Henry, all the presidents from the state, etc). It was one of the last states to secede and it wasn't precisely a unanimous vote. Off the top of my head, it never produced a nationally-known segregationist like John C. Calhoun, Ben Tillman, Strom Thurmond, Bull Connor, George Wallace, etc. It doesn't have a particularly strong evangelical Protestant presence compared to other Southern states. College football isn't as big there as it is in other states. I can't recall any major showdowns occurring there during the Civil Rights Movement. It went blue earlier than most other Southern states. And so on and so forth.
Tough call but my vote is Alabama. It has elements of the old south (Montgomery), new south (Huntsville), coastal and “mardi gras” culture (Mobile), industrial south/Appalachia (B’ham), the biggest college football rivalry, tons of Civil Rights history, and it’s centrally located within the south.
Say what? I've heard of the term "King Cotton" but never "King Tobacco." Cotton was strongly associated with the South not just in America but globally. I can't think of a non-Southern state that was a big producer of cotton but tobacco was also big in the border state of MD and the New England state of CT.
I'd say Virginia was the outlier in the South in many respects. It had more ties to the North and it's major historical figures were arguably more American than Southern in identity (Patrick Henry, all the presidents from the state, etc). It was one of the last states to secede and it wasn't precisely a unanimous vote. Off the top of my head, it never produced a nationally-known segregationist like John C. Calhoun, Ben Tillman, Strom Thurmond, Bull Connor, George Wallace, etc. It doesn't have a particularly strong evangelical Protestant presence compared to other Southern states. College football isn't as big there as it is in other states. I can't recall any major showdowns occurring there during the Civil Rights Movement. It went blue earlier than most other Southern states. And so on and so forth.
That just goes to show you that the south was never a monolith and that not everyone was all for session.
Some were strongly for it (S, Carolina), Some were strongly against it (Kentucky) and some were in the middle (Virginia).
Another reason why Virginia is the quintessential Southern state. It represented all sides.
Stop pegion-holing the south. It was never of one mind. And it will never be one mind. The backwoods, gun toting, coon hunting beverly Hillbilly version of the south cannot represent an area so vast.
You may not have heard of Tobacco, there is a lot of your history you have never heard of, but that doesn't mean it isn't history.
It seems less the viability of the Southern Colonies was made possible by Tobacco.
In 1612, he harvested his first tobacco crop, which was well-received in England, and which, became the colony's cash crop! Rolfe's tobacco was said to taste milder and less bitter than previous tobaccos. As Jamestown tobacco became more popular in England, more tobacco plantations were planted in Jamestown and surrounding areas. Tobacco became so important, that it was used as currency, to pay taxes, and even to purchase slaves and indentured servants. Because of its burgeoning tobacco industry, African slaves were brought to Jamestown in 1619 to work the plantations.
After the initial success of tobacco in Virginia, tobacco growing and the agrarian nature of the south spread as the Colonies grew and the south expanded
Once the English had established themselves at Jamestown, this model repeated itself and Virginian tobacco became so popular that, by 1627 CE, 500,000 pounds of tobacco a year were shipped from the colony to Britain. As British colonialism in North America expanded, so did the tobacco plantations and, in time, tobacco served not only as the economic foundation of the colonies but as currency
Yes Cotton became King, but the south was already the south by then. Tobacco on the other hand attracted colonists who created the south. And the spark that lit the fire for the American Southern agrarian culture was Virginia and its tobacco. Not Cotton.
* It's purple/politically divided, home to both MTG and Jimmy Carter, Newt Gingrich and John Lewis, Stone Mountain (Civil War) and the King Center (Civil Rights)
* It's Old South and New South, Deep South and Upper South
* Atlanta is quite representative of modern metropolitan life in the South and America at large in pretty much all facets both good and bad (housing, crime, jobs/economy, amenities, etc)
* Growing ethnic/racial diversity
* Popular culture, in which the South has always had an outsized influence, in is very much represented (music, film/TV, college and pro sports, etc)
* Mountains and beaches
* Popular types of Southern tourist destinations (Savannah, Atlanta, etc)
* Heavy military representation
* Just about every kind of college/university in the South is represented
* Labor Day weekend in metro Atlanta literally has something for everybody (more of an American thing than strictly Southern)
* Home to both Alpharetta and Albany, which are about as diametrically opposed as it gets and representative of both suburban affluence and rural/small-town decline that's present in the South
* Wide variety of traditional Southern cuisine
And so on and so forth.
I agree with everything in this post. Excellent, in-depth breakdown from someone that clearly knows GA.
Because I voted without reading the first post in the thread.
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