What is the most quintessential state in the South? (house, school)
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That just goes to show you that the south was never a monolith and that not everyone was all for session.
Some were strongly for it (S, Carolina), Some were strongly against it (Kentucky) and some were in the middle (Virginia).
Another reason why Virginia is the quintessential Southern state. It represented all sides.
Stop pegion-holing the south. It was never of one mind. And it will never be one mind. The backwoods, gun toting, coon hunting beverly Hillbilly version of the south cannot represent an area so vast.
You may not have heard of Tobacco, there is a lot of your history you have never heard of, but that doesn't mean it isn't history
Now if you want to deny the existence of common themes running throughout the South in areas like history, culture, politics, demography, geography, etc. and make "The South has never been monolithic!" your rallying cry, then you're free to do that--just as I'm free to point out the absurdity of doing so while also arguing strongly in favor of a quintessential Southern state. You do know that arguing for a quintessential anything requires you to engage in what you perceive of as "pigeonholing," right?
With that said, Virginia being "in the middle," as you call it, isn't itself a persuasive line of evidence in favor of your argument. The reasons it was "in the middle" are definitely relevant though, and the reasons it waffled were because of its strong direct economic ties to the North and because of a reluctance to forfeit its very prominent American historical legacy by seceding. VA stood alone in that respect; the other latecomers to the Confederacy, TN and NC, had neither of those concerns to content with in any significant way. VA was viewed as the grand prize in a way no other state was by Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders because of its strong American historical legacy which they believed would lend legitimacy to their cause. Including VA in the new Southern national structure justified their framing of the Confederate cause as the authentic heir of America's founding principles as outlined in the nation's founding documents.
On top of that, the rationale behind Richmond's designation as the new national capital was because of how much it stood apart from the rest of the South, not because of its status as a quintessential Southern city. Richmond was everything the rest of the South was not: industrial, developed, cosmopolitan, urbane, educated, cultured, etc. It was meant to be a showpiece for the Confederacy, improving its image to the rest of the world after the disappointment that Montgomery wound up being.
And yes, that version of the South you speak of is very much part and parcel of the image of the South that persists to this day, and not without merit. Break out any map of the U.S. that shows how the nation fares across several key QOL measures and the trend will be obvious to all but a blind person. Does that mean those measures totally characterize the South from end to end to the exclusion of anything else? Of course not but they are still rather prominent and widespread throughout the region to make it stand out among the rest of the country's regions.
And you need to re-read what I said about tobacco because you clearly misunderstood me. Otherwise, if you deliberately misrepresented me by saying I've never heard of tobacco (and regulating tobacco used to literally be my job during my stint at the FDA a few years ago), then that's beyond sad and I'd hope you wouldn't stoop that low for the sake of "winning" an argument that you're still likely to lose anyway.
I guess he'll be coming for you next lol. But I certainly co-sign.
Coming for him?
Lol, it's not that deep man.
And I don't disagree with him.
You always take my posts aggressively. I didn't even say that Virginia was my choice so why would I "come for him". I stated that if I were to choose I would choose Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana, but I have not voted.
He is speaking of today, my conversation with you is totally unrelated.
The post I responded to was asking why would people vote for Virginia and I gave a response that Virginia WAS the prototype for the south to which to oh disagreed and I explained my position.
No one is coming for you. Just because you think the south started with cotton and i think it was associated with Tobacco prior doesn't mean I am coming for you.
Again, it's not that deep
Coming for him?
Lol, it's not that deep man.
And I don't disagree with him.
You always take my posts aggressively. I didn't even say that Virginia was my choice so why would I "come for him". I stated that if I were to choose I would choose Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana, but I have not voted.
He is speaking of today, my conversation with you is totally unrelated.
The post I responded to was asking why would people vote for Virginia and I gave a response that Virginia WAS the prototype for the south to which to oh disagreed and I explained my position.
No one is coming for you. Just because you think the south started with cotton and i think it was associated with Tobacco prior doesn't mean I am coming for you.
Again, it's not that deep
I never said the South started with cotton. Historically VA and SC constituted the Southern anchor states and rice was more important early on in the SC Lowcountry in particular. I said cotton was the South's most important cash crop and was strongly associated with the South, more so than tobacco.
I'd say Virginia was the outlier in the South in many respects. It had more ties to the North and it's major historical figures were arguably more American than Southern in identity (Patrick Henry, all the presidents from the state, etc). It was one of the last states to secede and it wasn't precisely a unanimous vote. Off the top of my head, it never produced a nationally-known segregationist like John C. Calhoun, Ben Tillman, Strom Thurmond, Bull Connor, George Wallace, etc. It doesn't have a particularly strong evangelical Protestant presence compared to other Southern states. College football isn't as big there as it is in other states. I can't recall any major showdowns occurring there during the Civil Rights Movement. It went blue earlier than most other Southern states. And so on and so forth.
I won't argue that Virginia may be an outlier but not for the reasons you listed. Virginia exported it's culture which became southern culture. Grits originated in Virginia.
1. Major Southern historical figures you exclude: Robert E. Lee, A.P. Hill, J.E.B Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, John Tyler, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc. all proud Southern men. In fact, hot foods that later became a staple in the south were first introduced by Thomas Jefferson, a man who studied and learned a lot about nearly everything.
2. Virginia still seceded before other states. Although it wasn't the first it was somewhere in the middle of the pack and chose to stick with their southern states over the union. The uneasy feelings towards secession created the state of West Virginia. Pretty much all of the present-day borders of Virginia were in favor of secession. Far western parts had less to gain from it and like TN, AR and NC, were more reluctant to secede.
3. Jerry Falwell, Falwell Jr, Pat Robertson are some very prominent evangelicals from Virginia.
4. College football gives way to college basketball. But that's not unique to Virginia.
5. There was just a major showdown in Virginia over the removal of Confederate statues. Not sure what you are talking about but people in Virginia, outside of the cities and NoVa, are largely for restoring the monuments. At least based on their fervent reactions to their removal.
...
6. Virginia is a very pro-2nd Amendment state with a huge grassroots movement and militia musters being called regularly. County governments even recognize their own militias.
Outdoorsman’s agenda requires quite a few blindspots…
1) Virginia is not a strong 2A state. Gun ownership rates in Virginia are lower than anywhere else in the South (Maryland notwithstanding). The demonstrations were organized by out of state groups and only happen in Virginia because no other Southern state even debates stronger gun control. When the levers of power are on your side, there’s nothing to protest.
2) Washington and Jefferson were not “proud Southerns”. That concept didn’t even exist in their lifetimes (Washington for example was dead before slavery became illegal in the North*)
3) there was virtually no resistance to the monument removal and
what teeny tiny resistance there was came from out of state agitators (it’s well documented that they were mostly form TN, FL, OH and OR). I was at the removal of most of them in Richmond and they were a celebration enjoyed by thousands. I was at Charlottesville when a man from Ohio, egged on by men from Oregon. drove into Heather Heyer while the Virginias looks on in horror.
*Washington died a few short years after New England outlawed the practice
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