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The Minnesota or upper Midwestern accent actually sounds the most Irish to me.
I have buddies from the near suburbs of Boston. Thick Boston accents. They’ve been asked, when we travel to other parts of the US (and Europe), if they are Australian. Multiple times. The last time was someone in Chicago.
The response: “Buddy are you OK? I grew up like three States from you.”
As noted, the English who first settled Boston were dominated by folks from East Anglia and the adjacent Midlands with strong non-rhoticism. That pattern was long dominant in Boston's English ways, as later groups from elsewhere assimilated to it.
Unlike the Eastern New England accents, the Western New England accents were not heavily influenced by European immigrants because Hartford, Springfield, Pittsfield, Burlington, etc. were geographically far away from the the major port cities of Boston, New York, Providence, etc. (based on late 18th/early 19th century standards).
Because of their geographical distance from the coast, the Western New England cities had significantly less interaction with Great Britain in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, when the Great Vowel Shift was fully underway there, especially in Greater London and the East of England.
Also, during this time period, immigration to America sank to an all-time low. Between 1815 and 1820, America reached its lowest number of foreign-born residents (in recorded history), which allowed for uniquely American accents, customs and norms to develop and flourish (in the young nation).
Given little to no regular interaction with British people during this time period, as well as limited immigration from Great Britain and other countries, Western New Englanders were largely immune to the Great Vowel Shift and, therefore, unable to emulate the speech of British people, as did people in Boston, New York, Providence, etc., especially before the War of 1812 occurred.
Furthermore, the people who settled Western New England were, by and large, frontiersman and, accordingly more "American" and less "British,” so they probably had less interest in emulating the speech of British people to begin with.
By the time Irish immigrants began settling Massachusetts in large numbers during the 1840s, the predominant local accent found in the Boston area had already been entirely transformed by the Great Vowel Shift. Accordingly, second- and third-generation Irish-Americans took on this accent through cultural assimilation.
I do think non-rhoticism will eventually disappear from eastern New England, similar to how it has almost entirely disappeared from DC, Hampton Roads, Charleston, etc.
I do think non-rhoticism will eventually disappear from eastern New England, similar to how it has almost entirely disappeared from DC, Hampton Roads, Charleston, etc.
I am not so sure. That's been predicted for a long time, and yet shows no sign of diminishing on the street level, as it were.
I am not so sure. That's been predicted for a long time, and yet shows no sign of diminishing on the street level, as it were.
Oh my goodness. Yes, it does. Its definitely not the accent for most people. It's for a very specific type of person whose numbers have been in decline for decades. There a media fetish around it, and some people try to fake it to be cool when out of town...but you'll catch them 3 minutes into a conversation speaking totally normal.
I don't think it will disappear but diminish, yea thats for sure.
I've read some crazy stuff on this board, but this might take the cake.
Its actually not THAT crazy. There's some similarities, however, this could be mostly because the Irish dialect (and more so Scottish and northern English) has Scandinavian influences, plus the Minnesota accent has Canadian influences which in turn has Irish and Scottish influences.
St. Paul itself is fairly Irish and has a sizeable Irish community especially in the neighbourhood I lived in. I met some people directly from Ireland and those of Irish ancestry. Even those born in the US of recent enough Irish ancestry do have some distinguishing factors in their speech. An old buddy of mine was predominantly Irish, Native American and French Canadian. He had a strong Minnesota accent but it was most pronounced in the way he pronounced "r" in "carrrr" and how he would turn the D into a T so "stupid" became "stupit." I met a cop in St. Paul who sounded very Irish but was clearly from MN as well.
Now as far as the Gaelic/Scandinavian connection. Both people from Ireland and Scotland AND Scandinavia have similar vowel pronunciations especially in words like "bake" which might sound more like "behk" as in the "y" sound is very faint and the "eh" sound is stronger. This is also found in Jamaican English (which in turn has Irish influences). And then there's the famous Minnesota Oooo. This Ooohhh sound is also found in Scandinavia, Ireland and Scotland and to a degree, parts of Canada. It stands out more in Minnesota because its different from most American states' pronunciation.
Another feature is the very strong R. Like I mentioned in "carrr". And while not as abundant as in Canada, some native Minnesotans do the "aboot" thing (no it doesn't sound like a boot but it doesn't sound like a boat its in the middle)
So its more of a case of both Irish and Minnesota English having some Scandinavian influence, plus Irish ancestry being present in MN especially St. Paul.
I have noticed some similarities with the Cuban-American accent in Miami and Italian-American accents in the Mid-Atlantic. These come from Spanish and Italian having similar phonetics.
Something that I've been thinking about is how Boston is the most ethnically Irish major metro area in the US and there's certainly Irish influences in the accent/dialect, IMO its strongest in the "I". There's a slight "Oi" sound in Bostonian English in words like "Christ" and "Right."
But what's more peculiar is the fact that the traditional Boston accent is non-rhotic yet Irish English is not only rhotic, it's very pronounced, especially when its preceded by an "a" such as in "car" "jar" "park" "hard." Yet in Boston its "cah" "jah" "pahk" and "hahd" which is a feature more like British English than Irish. Funny, here in Minnesota, the R is often pronounced more like the R in Ireland but Boston's R is a bit more quiet.
Is the R in Boston from a separate influence from the Irish (after all, its still New England so maybe its a mainstay of English heritage) or is it something deeper?
I think the old St. Louis accent is very Irish sounding as well. Think of typical St. Louis phrases; “Highway farty-far”, “good marning”. Can’t get more Irish sounding than that.
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