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Further proves that CSA really only works for the Bay Area, LA, and maybe Boston. Orlando being larger than the Twin Cities and having 1.2 million more people than Tampa-St. Pete is hysterical.
Until the Triangle (Raleigh-Durham) gets reunited under a single MSA, the CSA is the only way to fully describe the metro.
One is a multi-nodal metropolis, the other isn't. I don't think they'll ever compare. As CSA's don't measure "cities" or even single metros.
In fact most CSA's measure 4, 5, 6 MSA's to make up their CSA population.
I get it, but having driven from DC to Baltimore before it strikes me as two completely separate metros in relatively close proximity. I see very little shared infrastructure between the two. (BWI being the biggest thing probably). If you are going to make that a singular region I'd argue that you could combine the entire northeast seaboard almost.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whereiend
I get it, but having driven from DC to Baltimore before it strikes me as two completely separate metros in relatively close proximity. I see very little shared infrastructure between the two. (BWI being the biggest thing probably). If you are going to make that a singular region I'd argue that you could combine the entire northeast seaboard almost.
The two are separate metros, but not sure what you mean by no shared infrastructure, when there's MARC regional rail, multiple highways connecting them, and suburbs in the grey area in between that could go either direction. The two find most of their distinction inside their own beltways 495/695.
The overall region's had shared amenities for decades, but those can be spread out away from either city proper. What separates this area from others is most metros don't retain their distinctions in their cores like DC-Baltimore does. But there aren't more than a couple other combo's nationwide of cities that are more connected.
One is a multi-nodal metropolis, the other isn't. I don't think they'll ever compare. As CSA's don't measure "cities" or even single metros.
In fact most CSA's measure 4, 5, 6 MSA's to make up their CSA population.
CSAs are inconsistent. Some western ones like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Boise, Albuquerque, etc are crazy in physical size (Granted, somewhat hard to avoid with their county sizes). Others, like Raleigh/Durham or Greensboro/Winston-Salem are more akin to what you'd expect the the metros to be.
The most unfortunate one, to me, would be Mobile's. Daphne is kinda similar to Riverside/San Jose in that it's similar to suburbs to Mobile. The killer is that Mobile-Pensacola would more fit what would feel like a CSA. They share a bit of bigger area services like NWS weather forecast offices and media markets. Neither's CSA is big enough to attract some popular retailers, but combined they probably could as a 1mill+ area. But since they aren't obviously connected via statistical areas, it's harder to get some popular stores to open up there.
Until the Triangle (Raleigh-Durham) gets reunited under a single MSA, the CSA is the only way to fully describe the metro.
More of the Durham workforce live in Wake County than Durham. The same goes for the Durham Bulls and DPAC theatre season ticket holders, with most living in Wake. Yet because the 90,000 daily commuters between the two counties goes in both directions, it falls below the MSA threshold. So for now, the CSA is definitely the best way to capture the Triangle.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemean
CSAs are inconsistent. Some western ones like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Boise, Albuquerque, etc are crazy in physical size (Granted, somewhat hard to avoid with their county sizes). Others, like Raleigh/Durham or Greensboro/Winston-Salem are more akin to what you'd expect the the metros to be.
The most unfortunate one, to me, would be Mobile's. Daphne is kinda similar to Riverside/San Jose in that it's similar to suburbs to Mobile. The killer is that Mobile-Pensacola would more fit what would feel like a CSA. They share a bit of bigger area services like NWS weather forecast offices and media markets. Neither's CSA is big enough to attract some popular retailers, but combined they probably could as a 1mill+ area. But since they aren't obviously connected via statistical areas, it's harder to get some popular stores to open up there.
It does vary in different parts of the country yes, but the same applies to MSA's. The MSA's in the sunbelt are pretty bloated too. I've seen inconsistencies with both, and UA may tell the better story.
Here's a map I created illustrating net domestic migration by U.S. county from 2020-2022. Counties with a net gain are shaded in GREEN. Counties with a net loss are shaded in RED.
NOTE: This map illustrates net domestic migration only. It does not illustrate absolute population growth, natural population growth, or foreign immigration.
Thanks for doing the work to compile this!
My takeaways:
- You can really see that the Bakken oil boom is dead and gone; most of western ND is shedding people
- East vs. west Texas is so stark. I would've guessed a lot of rural east TX would be losing and more of west TX would be gaining. New Mexico as a whole I'd also think would be shrinking more
- California is moving from being only the slowest-growing/fastest-shrinking state in the West, to one of the fastest-shrinking in the country. Wow
- Surprised how a lot of rural PA (and central-eastern OH) is growing. Appalachia is doing better than California nowadays
- Maine is really taking off (relatively) as a vacation home/outdoor enthusiast destination in the NE
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Crow
SE WA is closer to what a number of fed up west side NWsters say they want in many ways (affordability, les homeless, less radicaks, less rain...) but apparently not the most important ways to actually get higher intra state migration (salaries, greenery, hip urban amenities).
Yeah it's a bit weird. I wouldn't think SE WA would be booming but I'm surprised it's doing worse than say eastern Oregon. That probably is the reason, the scenery is kind of blah and brown, it's mostly agricultural, and it doesn't have access to any really stellar mountain ranges or national parks. Even one of the Tri-Cities counties (Franklin) is shrinking, which is nuts to me.
Also DC-Baltimore over Chicago sticks out to me. Chicago feels and operates as a much bigger city even compared to DC, much less Baltimore.
DC-Baltimore are two distinct central cities whose burbs occupy overlapping space and hence the region feels completely different on the ground relative to Chicago’s is a singular core.
For context on “real world” population…
Chicago’s UA is 2,338 sq/mi - 8.67 million people
DC + Baltimore UA is 1,948 sq/mi - 7.37 million people
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