Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:31 AM
j33
 
4,626 posts, read 14,082,651 times
Reputation: 1719

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post
It's my country

If you don't like it there are other countries in all directions.
Ah, I get it, if we don't like living in ghettos and have the nerve to actually complain that abandon houses filled with crackheads are bad, then we should leave the country? Is that what you are saying?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:32 AM
 
2,488 posts, read 2,931,980 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post
It's my country

If you don't like it there are other countries in all directions.
This attitude is not a way to fix anything. Having the "This is my country, you don't like it then leave" attitude doesn't help fix the negatives of this country. We all love this country, but we are allowed to pick out the problems in it. If we don't we just ignore them and let it get worse?

Anyways, great link. I love Time and National Geographic photos.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,179,956 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post
It's my country

If you don't like it there are other countries in all directions.
Some people prefer to live in la-la land where everything is fine all the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Passed out on the trail to Hanakapi'ai
1,657 posts, read 4,069,151 times
Reputation: 1324
Quote:
Originally Posted by j33 View Post
Ah, I get it, if we don't like living in ghettos and have the nerve to actually complain that abandon houses filled with crackheads are bad, then we should leave the country? Is that what you are saying?

well, you could try to improve yourself and others.
But that is not as easy as whining, now is it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:48 AM
 
2,488 posts, read 2,931,980 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post
well, you could try to improve yourself and others.
But that is not as easy as whining, now is it?
I personally think we should kick out anybody that complains and whines. No, In fact, we should set up Labor camps. If they complain about the government, or how jobs are so easily moved over seas for cheaper labor, OFF TO THE LABOR CAMP. These labor camps will have harsh conditions for them to slave in, and they will be fed daily rations! There will be no complaints against the government in this country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
3,047 posts, read 9,030,188 times
Reputation: 1386
The problem is America fosters an environment where people don't want to help themselves. And if they don't want to help themselves then you can't help them either. You can lead a horse to water...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 09:44 AM
j33
 
4,626 posts, read 14,082,651 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzo View Post
well, you could try to improve yourself and others.
But that is not as easy as whining, now is it?
Or you could draw attention to neighborhood problems, raise awareness, and rally those in the community to come together and fix things, but that would be whining now wouldn't it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 11:09 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,134,340 times
Reputation: 46680
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEng View Post
This could as well be Detroit or any other major city in the industrial midwest. I think nobody cares what happens in this part of the country. Most people outside this region feels detached from the situation like some how this has nothing to do with them. Industial states always suffer an amplified version of recessions. But this has been going on for quite a while.
It is a symptom that something has gone very wrong with our nation's economy for the past 20, 30 years.
At the end it is the responsability of this region to fix itself, but it is a tall order when we are not a producing nation anymore.
Well, hold on. Regions have their own economies, which are affected by any number of issues, from the relative health of their core industries to the taxation levels and employment laws to the available of inexpensive power and water.

The Rust Belt didn't get this way overnight. Instead, it has gotten this way by ongoing apathy to the needs of business, instead seeing local industry as nothing so much as a gigantic revenue stream for government. Well, in a time of international competition, companies have to make a profit, they have to be flexible, and they have to keep costs as low as reasonable as possible. So moving South for many industries has been as much a matter of survival as anything.

As a former resident of Chicago and Cleveland now living in the South, and as somebody who is peripherally involved in economic development, I can tell you firsthand how excessive regulation and taxation can absolutely gut a state's economic development. When you realize that most large companies operate on a 5-7% net, a 3-4% difference in expenses can mean an enormous difference to that company's viability. That's why Granholm of Michigan really takes the cake for stupidity in governance, for she raised corporate income taxes at the very time when the auto industry and related suppliers were feeling the bite.

Now this is where the bashers of the South predictably talk about lower wages, fewer services, lower education standards, etc. Well, that was certainly true 20 years ago, and if you took a snapshot today, then you could still make that case. However, if you look at trends over the past 20 years, southern states are rapidly closing the gap in just about any area you care to name. For example, even before the current recession, Alabama was due to pass Michigan in per capita income sometime in 2010, with lower taxation and general costs of living. Before the recession hit, Alabama's unemployment rate was close to 3%. Today, it's obviously a lot tougher with unemployment around 9%, but that's still far better than Michigan's 12-13%. Compare that with the early 80s when Alabama's unemployment was higher than Michigan's.

Now, this is NOT a North vs. South thread. But even the most ardent critics of the South have to recognize that the region has come a very long way in a short period of time by keeping the needs of business in balance with the needs of the people. And while there isn't a barrista on every corner, the quality of life in the region is quite good for the average person trying to make a living and raise a family. Heck, all you have to do is look at California, the quality-of-life capital of America. Yet, despite all the great things about living in the Golden State, there has been a net migration by professionals for years (Three California families have moved onto our street in the past five years). What's more, if California truly goes bankrupt this year (despite the state's immense wealth), then the standard of living will begin plunging almost overnight.

In short, prosperity is never a permanent condition. It has to be maintained with hard work, intelligent and far-sighted policymaking, and an ongoing awareness of the competitive needs of the market. The Rust Belt essentially killed the goose that laid the golden egg, and still can't seem to recognize it. It is a tragedy, and it sickens me to go home and visit the shell of cities where I grew up and lived.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Springfield VA
4,036 posts, read 9,240,040 times
Reputation: 1522
Quote:
Originally Posted by At1WithNature View Post
America peaked in the 60's. It was all downhill from there. The 60's were the best era in American history. From the music to the cars to the leaders. It's no coincidence so many assassinations and mysterious deaths took place during that era (late 60's to about 1971). Much more than what we've seen in the 40 years since then. Whether it be Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Marilyn Monroe, Jimi Hendrix, John F. Kennedy, John Lennon, Malcom X, I mean the list is endless.

It was an amazing time of change with the viewpoints of many American citizens changing. Citizens who actually had spines to stand up for what they believed was right (this is before tv plagued the nation with super sized foods). The Vietnam War brought change to America and really challenged its' citizens to look in the mirror and see who they were. Man went to the Moon and the Cold War was running thick. Manufacturing jobs were plentiful and Made in the USA meant something. What a beautiful time to be alive. What I would give, to go back into time, so I could experience that incredible era.
I don't know. There's nothing wrong with having fond memories of the past. At the same time we'll never get anywhere as a country if we carry around the notion that the best days are behind us. I mean so basically there's no point to carry on because the 60s are over? I don't wanna buy into that philosophy.

Also let's not forget the 60s weren't great for everyone. There was segregation and there were folks dieing in Vietnam. The world has changed in some ways for the worse sure but in a lot of ways for the better. In 60s you couldn't even write what you just wrote a past decade, no internet back then. So yeah let's umm...look forward. LEt's not the lessons learned in the past but at the same time let's at least look at ways to ensure that the best is yet to come.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2009, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Waterford & Sterling Heights, Michigan
339 posts, read 975,518 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, hold on. Regions have their own economies, which are affected by any number of issues, from the relative health of their core industries to the taxation levels and employment laws to the available of inexpensive power and water.

The Rust Belt didn't get this way overnight. Instead, it has gotten this way by ongoing apathy to the needs of business, instead seeing local industry as nothing so much as a gigantic revenue stream for government. Well, in a time of international competition, companies have to make a profit, they have to be flexible, and they have to keep costs as low as reasonable as possible. So moving South for many industries has been as much a matter of survival as anything.

As a former resident of Chicago and Cleveland now living in the South, and as somebody who is peripherally involved in economic development, I can tell you firsthand how excessive regulation and taxation can absolutely gut a state's economic development. When you realize that most large companies operate on a 5-7% net, a 3-4% difference in expenses can mean an enormous difference to that company's viability. That's why Granholm of Michigan really takes the cake for stupidity in governance, for she raised corporate income taxes at the very time when the auto industry and related suppliers were feeling the bite.

Now this is where the bashers of the South predictably talk about lower wages, fewer services, lower education standards, etc. Well, that was certainly true 20 years ago, and if you took a snapshot today, then you could still make that case. However, if you look at trends over the past 20 years, southern states are rapidly closing the gap in just about any area you care to name. For example, even before the current recession, Alabama was due to pass Michigan in per capita income sometime in 2010, with lower taxation and general costs of living. Before the recession hit, Alabama's unemployment rate was close to 3%. Today, it's obviously a lot tougher with unemployment around 9%, but that's still far better than Michigan's 12-13%. Compare that with the early 80s when Alabama's unemployment was higher than Michigan's.

Now, this is NOT a North vs. South thread. But even the most ardent critics of the South have to recognize that the region has come a very long way in a short period of time by keeping the needs of business in balance with the needs of the people. And while there isn't a barrista on every corner, the quality of life in the region is quite good for the average person trying to make a living and raise a family. Heck, all you have to do is look at California, the quality-of-life capital of America. Yet, despite all the great things about living in the Golden State, there has been a net migration by professionals for years (Three California families have moved onto our street in the past five years). What's more, if California truly goes bankrupt this year (despite the state's immense wealth), then the standard of living will begin plunging almost overnight.

In short, prosperity is never a permanent condition. It has to be maintained with hard work, intelligent and far-sighted policymaking, and an ongoing awareness of the competitive needs of the market. The Rust Belt essentially killed the goose that laid the golden egg, and still can't seem to recognize it. It is a tragedy, and it sickens me to go home and visit the shell of cities where I grew up and lived.
That is what I meant at the end of my post. That this region of the country has to fix itself. And there is a LOT to be fix and I did not want to get into that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top