Hudsonville being sued by a group in Wisconsin?!? (public school, quality of life)

[AngelfaceAZ]

How in the world can a "freedom from religion" group in Wisconsin try to sue the City of Hudsonville for a phrase on the city's web site? More importantly, if they don't even live in the state, why do they care? Hudsonville is still tiny in comparison to most small cities.

One person complained in a city of 7,000 anyone else have any idea of how many churchs are jammed into this small city? I grew up in Hudsonville, and when I graduated from High School in 94 the school board at the PUBLIC school still started their meetings with prayer. I say let the city leave their website the way they want and anyone who doen't like it can move. The city has been this way forever and everyone knows it, it's not like it's some kind of secret.

Freedom From Religion Group Goes After Michigan Small Town Council - News Story - WISC Madison (http://www.channel3000.com/news/15337468/detail.html - broken link)

[SIZE=+2]M[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]ission Statement
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]T[/SIZE]he City Commission and Administration of the City of Hudsonville strive to serve God through the strengthening of family and community life and are committed to excellence in providing quality municipal services.
[SIZE=+1]W[/SIZE]e Pledge to protect the lives and property of our citizens, provide for responsible and orderly growth, and to promote the beliefs and convictions, economic opportunities, and quality of life for all residents.

[leadsquirter]

Put the issue on the November ballot in Hudsonville and let the people that live there decide what THEY want on THEIR website.

[suydam]

Originally Posted by leadsquirter

Put the issue on the November ballot in Hudsonville and let the people that live there decide what THEY want on THEIR website.

I think they should keep the statement in their city charter (it's more than just the website...that group from WI wants it removed from all city documents I believe).


... but I also wanted to point out that a ballot vote to determine citizen intent doesn't make something right or wrong. Things like segregation and women's inability to vote both arose from a majority of people voting for (or otherwise supporting) illegal practices.

Anyway, I'll get back off the soap-box... Hudsonville should be able to keep their motto if they want it.

[Bydand]

Agree that Hudsonville should keep the motto. A single persons wants doesn't rule the majority. Just another case of the minority wanting to dictate to the majority. Sometimes you have to just suck up something you don't like and be an adult about it.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by AngelfaceAZ

How in the world can a "freedom from religion" group in Wisconsin try to sue the City of Hudsonville for a phrase on the city's web site? More importantly, if they don't even live in the state, why do they care?

Pretty amazing, isn't it? What really gets to me is that there are only some issues which clog up the courts. Those that are raised to this level are only those which fits a particular template. Would this group be attacking some other religious beliefs (or non-beliefs)? Probably not. It does not fit their overall agenda.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon

Pretty amazing, isn't it? What really gets to me is that there are only some issues which clog up the courts. Those that are raised to this level are only those which fits a particular template. Would this group be attacking some other religious beliefs (or non-beliefs)? Probably not. It does not fit their overall agenda.

By the way, The Freedom From Religion Foundation lists many noteworthy accomplishments on their site.

Overturned a state Good Friday holiday.
Let's overturn Christmas and have everyone work that day. But let's replace it with Freedom From Religion Holiday to be held on June 6th starting at 6 A.M.

Stopped Jobs Corps trainees from being assigned to work on a Catholic shrine.
Good Job. Maybe they can hand out flyers for their group paid for by your taxes.

Stopped direct subsidy to religious schools.
Good piece of work. I'm sure glad that your organization is a 501(c)(3) group so you get all the advantages.

[magellan]

Moderator cut: orphaned - the post you were replying to was deleted

I think the motto should be removed. This isn't saying a prayer before meetings, or anyone on the council expressing their religious beliefs. This is Hudsonville City government, as an entity, saying that they serve God first and foremost. They receive tax dollars from their citizens, and are elected officials, so that makes them a branch of the government. I agree with the individual who filed the complaint.

Hudsonville is working hard trying to "reinvigorate" its downtown and get people back into the city (the surrounding townships are where the growth is). Does giving the impression that they are a theocracy help or hinder that effort?

[AngelfaceAZ]

Originally Posted by magellan

How enlightened of you. And it's "their", not "there".

I think the motto should be removed. This isn't saying a prayer before meetings, or anyone on the council expressing their religious beliefs. This is Hudsonville City government, as an entity, saying that they serve God first and foremost. They receive tax dollars from their citizens, and are elected officials, so that makes them a branch of the government. I agree with the individual who filed the complaint.

Hudsonville is working hard trying to "reinvigorate" its downtown and get people back into the city (the surrounding townships are where the growth is). Does giving the impression that they are a theocracy help or hinder that effort?

Magellan,
I understand the argument. Plus the whole seperation of church and state. But Hudsonville being what it is and has been for decades... the quote works. It seems rather petty to sue the many because of the complaint of a few. The phrase doesn't dictate how people in the city must live it is mostly a mission statement on the part of the city's governing body in a highly religious town. So yeah, maybe having the quote on the website is a slight infraction but to SUE the city over something that isn't hurting anyone is...well...petty, and is only giving someone the opportunity to make an example of the City of Hudsonville. If I recall correctly, the seperation of church and state was originally put in place to protect the church FROM the state...funny how things can flip.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by AngelfaceAZ

Magellan,
I understand the argument. Plus the whole seperation of church and state. But Hudsonville being what it is and has been for decades... the quote works. It seems rather petty to sue the many because of the complaint of a few. The phrase doesn't dictate how people in the city must live it is mostly a mission statement on the part of the city's governing body in a highly religious town. So yeah, maybe having the quote on the website is a slight infraction but to SUE the city over something that isn't hurting anyone is...well...petty, and is only giving someone the opportunity to make an example of the City of Hudsonville. If I recall correctly, the seperation of church and state was originally put in place to protect the church FROM the state...funny how things can flip.

No, it was quite the opposite. The "separation of church and state" comes from the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

In other words, our government cannot advocate one particular religion over another. It came about because the founding fathers did not want a church similar to the Church of England being intrinsic in the government. In similar court cases, that has gone on to include:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State."

The Hudsonville area is growing and changing as new people move in. If they don't want to accept different people of different viewpoints, they should erect a wall to keep all outsiders out.

[christina0001]

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