I used to be all for the legalization of marijuana until... (healthcare, insurance)
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those same dealers will continue to profit even if legal--there is no such thing as recreational use as the body does physically become dependent on weed just as it does both physically and mentally on tobacco and alcohol---and see how great the gov does on controlling them
MJ dependence is hardly prevalent, and is generally limited to heavy, daily users. How can you say there is no recreational use? I've left behind most of the people who want to live stoned, true, but most of the smokers I know now use less than a few times a week.
With alcohol, when it was (re)legalized, the criminal element came to a nearly complete end. Many years later there is an infinitesimally small trade in illegal alcohol, but it's all but over. It's too simple to walk into a store and buy safe alcohol in any variety one could want. The same would go for pot. Non-authorized trade could have huge fines and prison time attached to it. The retail price would drop to the point that corner dealers couldn't profit. Alcohol has provided the blueprint for pot legalization.
MJ dependence is hardly prevalent, and is generally limited to heavy, daily users. How can you say there is no recreational use? I've left behind most of the people who want to live stoned, true, but most of the smokers I know now use less than a few times a week.
With alcohol, when it was (re)legalized, the criminal element came to a nearly complete end. Many years later there is an infinitesimally small trade in illegal alcohol, but it's all but over. It's too simple to walk into a store and buy safe alcohol in any variety one could want. The same would go for pot. Non-authorized trade could have huge fines and prison time attached to it. The retail price would drop to the point that corner dealers couldn't profit. Alcohol has provided the blueprint for pot legalization.
So do you propose that we make meth and heroin legal as well? Why or why not?
So do you propose that we make meth and heroin legal as well? Why or why not?
I will take a crack at this one.
The objective of legalizing drugs is to take the criminal aspect out of it where possible. Doing so reduces the profits associated with a black market, and lessens the number of crimes committed by users in order to be money to buy their drugs. It also reduces the number of people in jail for these offenses, reducing enforcement and incareration costs to society. At the same time, decriminalization needs to be balanced against the social costs to the users and society.
Alcohol and marijuana are drugs which may have negative consequences in the form of addiction or health problems for some users, but not all users. Individuals are expected to be responsible in their use of these drugs, and most people are able to do so. For those who become addicted treatment is made available. Of course, a small percentage of all users will behave irresponsibly and will not be receptive to treatment, and their lives will be ruined. However, most people seem to be able to use these drugs responsibly, and the social costs from use are low relative to the costs of criminalizing the behavior, so they should be made legal.
In the case of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamines, however, the negative consequences will apply to virtually all users. Almost everyone who uses more than a certain number of times will become addicted. What's more, treatment for these drugs seems fairly ineffective. These people will become a burden on society, as they will be unable to provide for their ongoing support and eventual medical treatment. Therefore, the social costs of these drugs is high, and outweigh the savings realized from decriminalization. For that reason, these drugs should remain illegal.
Last edited by Glenfield; 11-25-2012 at 06:07 PM..
The objective of legalizing drugs is to take the criminal aspect out of it where possible. Doing so reduces the profits associated with a black market, and lessens the number of crimes committed by users in order to be money to buy their drugs. It also reduces the number of people in jail for these offenses, reducing enforcement and incareration costs to society. At the same time, decriminalization needs to be balanced against the social costs to the users and society.
Alcohol and marijuana are drugs which may have negative consequences in the form of addiction or health problems for some users, but not all users. Individuals are expected to be responsible in their use of these drugs, and most people are able to do so. For those who become addicted treatment is made available. Of course, a small percentage of all users will behave irresponsibly and will not be receptive to treatment, and their lives will be ruined. However, most people seem to be able to use these drugs responsibly, and the social costs from use are low relative to the costs of criminalizing the behavior, so they should be made legal.
In the case of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamines, however, the negative consequences will apply to virtually all users. Almost everyone who uses more than a certain number of times will become addicted. What's more, treatment for these drugs seems fairly ineffective. These people will become a burden on society, as they will be unable to provide for their ongoing support and eventual medical treatment. Therefore, the social costs of these drugs is high, and outweigh the savings realized from decriminalization. For that reason, these drugs should remain illegal.
Congratulations on being the ONLY person on this thread to tackle this question.
I see your point and it has some validity. However, cigarettes and alcohol addictions are very common and cost society quite a bit of money. The vast majority of people who smoke do so as a habit and their health is negatively affected - and a large group of those people (and alcoholics as well) depend on taxpayer money to treat the illnesses caused by their addictions.
those same dealers will continue to profit even if legal--there is no such thing as recreational use as the body does physically become dependent on weed just as it does both physically and mentally on tobacco and alcohol---and see how great the gov does on controlling them
That is a false statement. Try actually reading about the subject before blabbering out incorrect information because you're against it.
i am sorry for the loss of your brother, but by your arguments, we should also make alcohol illegal.
i have never, ever, ever, ever in my life read anything in any literature, pro or con, about anything of this nature happening. i am not convinced. but if it is so, then we need to make beer illegal as well. you can't parse it and say "only weed" if this is really your argument.
Don't forget wine. Some churches even use wine during their communion service. And the bible tells us to use wine. Alcohol is alcohol, no matter what you call it.
If MJ should be illegal, so should ALL alcohol. Young kids have even been known to get high on various kinds of cough medicine with alcoholic content.
Vanilla and lemon extract are high in alcohol content. One two ounce bottle of lemon extract has as much alcohol as a two ounce shot of 180 proof vodka.
Congratulations on being the ONLY person on this thread to tackle this question.
I see your point and it has some validity. However, cigarettes and alcohol addictions are very common and cost society quite a bit of money. The vast majority of people who smoke do so as a habit and their health is negatively affected - and a large group of those people (and alcoholics as well) depend on taxpayer money to treat the illnesses caused by their addictions.
That is an interesting point about tobacco. There are some studies that have shown that smokers actually cost less in health care because their early deaths mean that they do not have prolonged care needs in their old age. But either way, the idea is to compare the social costs to the costs of criminalization, and I suspect that it would cost a good deal more to arrest, try, and incarcerate the smokers that to leave it as is. Also, it would seem that the public education efforts are doing a good job of reducing the number of smokers.
So do you propose that we make meth and heroin legal as well? Why or why not?
I responded to this question in a parallel thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Congratulations on being the ONLY person on this thread to tackle this question.
I see your point and it has some validity. However, cigarettes and alcohol addictions are very common and cost society quite a bit of money. The vast majority of people who smoke do so as a habit and their health is negatively affected - and a large group of those people (and alcoholics as well) depend on taxpayer money to treat the illnesses caused by their addictions.
On the one had, I think that people should be allowed to do whatever they want in their own homes, other private venues, or in the case of things like the large sodas which NY has outlawed, in public. Laws are (supposed to be) in place to protect us from each other, NOT from ourselves. So if you want to consider the intent of the founding fathers, and the Constitution, everything should be legal, given certain restrictions, without exception. We could stop here by saying that outlawing drugs puts the assumed benefits of society over the rights of the individual, and we know that is not what we are supposed to be about. As examples...
For every argument that says drugs are dangerous, I also point towards tobacco. Used as intended, tobacco kills. Alcohol, when misused, kills also. So if public safety was a concern, these would be outlawed. Apparently that isn't the case, even though we have a hundred years worth of proof.
For every argument that says the public pays for drug users, I say they also pay for car crash victims (outlaw cars), health care for obesity (outlaw pizza, ice cream, and soda, among hundreds of other foods), people who don't exercise, people who drink excessively or smoke, etc. Apparently this isn't the case either.
My point here is that there is no continuity on how these issues are addressed. We've basically said, "yeah, well, even though we can't find a good reason for it, and though many other things should be illegal but aren't if we evaluate them as we do pot, it's still illegal".
We lost the war on drugs long ago. If we took a fraction of the money thrown away on it (and made through the legal sale of drugs) we could improve treatment for addicts, research, and education.
On the other hand, unlike marijuana and cocaine, I'm not aware of any social or health benefits to heroin or meth use, and certainly they are addictive. Although this is at odds with my general attitude, I'm not sure there is any good reason to make them legal. My mental jury is still out on that.
My forty year old brother lapsed into substance induced psychosis - caused by marijuana - and is now permanently brain damaged.
His life is ruined. Before this happened to him, I had never even HEARD of the possibility of marijuana capitulating someone into a permanent state of psychosis. Here's what I have found out:
Some people are genetically predisposed to developing a permanent state of mental illness (caused by brain damage) from using marijuana and/or alcohol. The damage includes, but is not limited to, a form of psychosis which closely resembles schizophrenia. You know that feeling of paranoia you can get when you smoke weed? That's a very mild form of what can for some people become a permanent state of brain damage and psychosis. Trouble is - you don't know whether or not you're succeptible, till you're already damaged beyond repair. There is not medical test to determine whether or not you have this genetic tendency.
My brother was a handsome, well educated (private prep school and then college and eventually a master's degree), intelligent, and gentle. He was an animal lover and was fascinated by history. He was given the opportunity to take over the family business, which was very successful. He had a beautiful wife and a large, lovely home. In other words, he had it all - strong family, education, intelligence, looks, career, creature comforts, you name it.
But he loved weed, and he loved to drink. Over the years, we watched in frustration as he smoked and drank his life into the toilet. Long story short, his wife left him, he lost the business, and then lost his subsequent job due to increasingly poor performance, and finally had a psychotic "break" which we were desperately hoping was temporary due to possible addictions and stress. He broke into a rent house, ransacked several homes on the family property, assaulted a tenant, threatening repeatedly to kill him and burn all the buildings to the ground, and was finally arrested nearly naked walking down the road, completely delusional.
Just got the news - nope, there's nothing temporary about his state of mind. It's permanent - and he's done it to himself.
Just wanted to give others a warning about this - don't assume that weed is harmless, or that you can smoke or drink regularly with no long term or serious side effects. When my brother held the world in the palm of his hand, he never saw this coming, and neither did we.
He will be institutionalized for the rest of his life. Don't let this happen to you or a loved one.
Not trying to be mean and this is not directed at you family. It's just a general statement of mine:
Everything in moderation. Water can kill you if you drink enough of it. What often kills you or messes up your life is not what you are doing to cope with it (meds, drinking, pot, etc...) it's what your running from. Find out what it is and if you are around ppl you care about that have issues try to help them turn the corner and solve their demons that lie within. Then they won't seek these other 'alternative treatment modalities'.
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