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Toddlers are given mind altering substances. They're called prescription pills, and they kill 125,000 people just in the US every year, used as directed. Then there are those vaccines given babies before age 1.
Mental & physical problems do not have a minimum age limit. Is it best to treat them with a poison or something non-toxic? Dr. Lester Grinspoon (retired from Harvard Med. Sch.) had a 10 year old son, Danny, who was diagnosed with cancer. He got standard treatments: cutting, burning & poisoning. Of course the chemo caused nausea. Someone suggested he try smoking cannabis. So he did, and as his mother was driving him home, he asked to stop at a restaurant for a sandwich. It stayed down. His father asked to watch next time, as he'd heard the propaganda, & he had to see to believe.
Dr. Grinspoon has website rxmarijuana.com/ 120+ conditions it may help better than pills. As told by the patients themselves, so most is in plain English. Highly informative.
Nobody uses MJ for no reason, their condition came first. Those who call themselves recreational users, are almost certainly using it to control anger, depression, anxiety, or some physical pain. Big Pharma has admitted some of their pills to treat depression can cause suicide, & some say homicide, too.
Doctors recommended cannabis in the 1800s for all mood disorders (so-called mental illness).
I won't argue your points, mainly because I agree with a lot of them. That said, if there are no extenuating circumstances calling for any kind of medication, then I'd say its better for kids to stay off of mind altering substances. Treating people with ailments is one thing, and recreational use is something else.
On the other hand, adults who are presumed to be responsible should have their freedom.
Your point about recreation users "almost certainly using it to control anger, depression.." etc...is wrong. Some may do it for those reasons, but a vast majority use it just because it feels good. Period. Why make a federal case out of it? Ooops....it IS a federal case already...
Last edited by Captain_Fingers; 01-09-2013 at 03:25 AM..
Reason: typos
I have never smoked MJ.
But I have grandchildren who do, unfortunately.
What people are missing on here is the effect it has on young developing brains.
I see instances of bursts of anger over nothing. I see a lack of motivation, just not caring. I see the difference in their attitude and behavior when they are smoking regularly, and when they dont.
Legalize it or not? I dont know.
I've read 5,000-10,000 pages about MJ, no deaths as a direct result of use & no brain damage. The claim of it having different effects on brains not fully developed I read about for the 1st time a few years ago. If the researchers promise to try to find something bad, they get maybe $500,000 for each study, lying/misleading, & often proving nothing, just theories & opinions, saying might possibly harm.
Shortly after big bucks offered to research ways it might harm kids, a "study" says 3 teens had strokes as a result of using it. Highly improbable, it seems, as cannabis widens blood vessels, which should reduce the chances of a blockage. And it doesn't cause strokes in adults. More lies is nothing new.
Bursts of anger over nothing can be caused by too much alcohol, alcohol & pills combined, pills alone, or some condition like bipolar. If a person allows themselves some time to relax, perhaps with pot, it doesn't mean they don't care about anything or anybody. They could be frustrated by problems that don't seem to have good solutions, overwhelmed. Many who smoke MJ have serious medical problems. Some users have lack of motivation after smoking MJ, some don't. Some had lack of motivation before using.
Even "normal" teens are likely to have more intense ups & downs regardless of whether they use drugs.
Teens have some of the highest suicide rates, along with the elderly. They have more to worry about than most older people could guess. Best wishes.
bjwis9..not to be disrespectful of your feelings, but unless you are with them when they partake you can't know whether there are also imbibing with alcohol, or other drugs as well, which could easily be the case.
That is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers
I actually wasn't referring so much to the lure of the forbidden as to the accessibility. I understand that your primary concern is the impact on the your grandchildren and not the legality, but I was trying to point out that the legal status might have a different effect on availability and, therefore, the potential of indulging.
That said, I definitely agree that children are surely better off not taking any mind altering substances, including alchohol. Developing brains and minds need no external source of impairment, and there will be time enough for toking it up when they're older and, presumably, wiser.
That is true also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJG2012
I've read 5,000-10,000 pages about MJ, no deaths as a direct result of use & no brain damage. The claim of it having different effects on brains not fully developed I read about for the 1st time a few years ago. If the researchers promise to try to find something bad, they get maybe $500,000 for each study, lying/misleading, & often proving nothing, just theories & opinions, saying might possibly harm.
Shortly after big bucks offered to research ways it might harm kids, a "study" says 3 teens had strokes as a result of using it. Highly improbable, it seems, as cannabis widens blood vessels, which should reduce the chances of a blockage. And it doesn't cause strokes in adults. More lies is nothing new.
Bursts of anger over nothing can be caused by too much alcohol, alcohol & pills combined, pills alone, or some condition like bipolar. If a person allows themselves some time to relax, perhaps with pot, it doesn't mean they don't care about anything or anybody. They could be frustrated by problems that don't seem to have good solutions, overwhelmed. Many who smoke MJ have serious medical problems. Some users have lack of motivation after smoking MJ, some don't. Some had lack of motivation before using.
Even "normal" teens are likely to have more intense ups & downs regardless of whether they use drugs.
Teens have some of the highest suicide rates, along with the elderly. They have more to worry about than most older people could guess. Best wishes.
For every study you can come up with that says there is no problem with MJ, I can come up with another that says there is. I try to read both sides of the story.
The anger problems seem to flare up with regular smoking. I am not stupid, I know when they are smoking.
There is a difference between relaxing and not giving a darn. I can relax but I can also take care of the things I need to.
The part in red is a darn good reason why they shouldnt touch it at all.
My part in this discussion is not whether it should be legalized or not. My part is to say this is not a good choice for young developing minds and bodies. It may very well be that adults can smoke it recreationally without harm. That is adults who havent other serious problems nor have they used it in their youth. And I theorize that just like some people cant drink alcohol without becoming addicted, so it is with MJ. And kids shouldnt mess with alcohol either.
Cigarette smoke is harmful to the human body, so is the smoke from MJ.
Kids shouldnt smoke regular cigarettes either. Some studies have shown that females who smoke at an early age can damage their reproductive organs.
So perhaps I am making a stand on legalization.
I don't smoke marijuana, but I don't care if people want to. Let those who wish to brave the world of drugs do so with the full backing of the law instead of being black-listed. Some guy getting locked up for smoking and getting a record does nothing good for anybody. Just make it legal, tax it, and warn of the dangers, and be done with it.
I have been meaning to come back to this thread, which is an emotional one for me considering what has happened to my brother (read the OP if you don't know already).
I believe I was wrong in some ways on this subject. Yes, it's true - sometimes people on this forum will admit to being wrong! Amazing, huh? But I'm a fifty year old woman - I have learned you don't fall over dead from admitting when you're wrong.
Anyway, I am glad I was able to sort through all my thoughts after the tragic events of my brother's life. I had to put those events into perspective, and get my moral compass out again, and unfortunately another tragic event helped me to do so. That event was the Connecticut school shooting and the political events that are unfolding in the wake of that shooting.
These events reminded me that bad law is based on exceptions rather than the rule. In my grief over my brother, and the role that marijuana played in the ruin of his life, I allowed emotions to overrule reason.
So - in conclusion, I have returned to a more objective state of mind - my usual libertarian mindset when it comes to personal rights and freedoms. I do not believe that marijuana use IN ADULTS should be outlawed, generally speaking. I do believe that there should be very stiff penalties for any infringement on the rights of others while one is under the influence of MJ (as there are with alcohol). I believe that minors should be protected from the use, traffic, and outcomes of MJ use by others which negatively affect them. But I do not believe that it is in our best interests to mandate via law that adults do not legally use MJ or sell it to other adults. I believe it's cluttering our legal system, our jails, etc and meanwhile we are missing out on a lot of tax revenue.
I think laws that apply to the use of alcohol could be a guideline to laws for MJ.
I think that just as kids are educated about the dangers of smoking, abusing alcohol, etc, they should be educated about the dangers of smoking weed.
There. That's my position.
What I've learned from this little walk down Ethics Way is how easy it is to allow our EMOTIONS to overrule our REASON. I am seeing that now in the wake of the tragic Connecticut shootings. I learned something about myself during this fiasco with my brother. Now it's my job to keep firm to my convictions and my moral standards in spite of how I FEEL at the moment.
I have been meaning to come back to this thread, which is an emotional one for me considering what has happened to my brother (read the OP if you don't know already).
I believe I was wrong in some ways on this subject. Yes, it's true - sometimes people on this forum will admit to being wrong! Amazing, huh? But I'm a fifty year old woman - I have learned you don't fall over dead from admitting when you're wrong.
Anyway, I am glad I was able to sort through all my thoughts after the tragic events of my brother's life. I had to put those events into perspective, and get my moral compass out again, and unfortunately another tragic event helped me to do so. That event was the Connecticut school shooting and the political events that are unfolding in the wake of that shooting.
These events reminded me that bad law is based on exceptions rather than the rule. In my grief over my brother, and the role that marijuana played in the ruin of his life, I allowed emotions to overrule reason.
So - in conclusion, I have returned to a more objective state of mind - my usual libertarian mindset when it comes to personal rights and freedoms. I do not believe that marijuana use IN ADULTS should be outlawed, generally speaking. I do believe that there should be very stiff penalties for any infringement on the rights of others while one is under the influence of MJ (as there are with alcohol). I believe that minors should be protected from the use, traffic, and outcomes of MJ use by others which negatively affect them. But I do not believe that it is in our best interests to mandate via law that adults do not legally use MJ or sell it to other adults. I believe it's cluttering our legal system, our jails, etc and meanwhile we are missing out on a lot of tax revenue.
I think laws that apply to the use of alcohol could be a guideline to laws for MJ.
I think that just as kids are educated about the dangers of smoking, abusing alcohol, etc, they should be educated about the dangers of smoking weed.
There. That's my position.
What I've learned from this little walk down Ethics Way is how easy it is to allow our EMOTIONS to overrule our REASON. I am seeing that now in the wake of the tragic Connecticut shootings. I learned something about myself during this fiasco with my brother. Now it's my job to keep firm to my convictions and my moral standards in spite of how I FEEL at the moment.
Nice post! I applaud your honesty and the thought you put into your stance on MJ. Emotions get the best of all of us sometimes.
Nice post! I applaud your honesty and the thought you put into your stance on MJ. Emotions get the best of all of us sometimes.
Thank you. I'm not going to be smoking it anytime soon, and I will encourage my kids and grandkids to avoid it, but if others want to take the risks associated with it, go for it. As long as my rights aren't infringed upon by their usage, they can carry on.
In my brother's case, his longterm use of MJ starting in adolescence - according to the team of medical and psychological experts who have been treating him - played a pivotal role in his current condition. He's on the taxpayer's back now - and probably will be for the rest of his life. Would he have been so if he hadn't smoked copious amounts of weed for decades? We'll never know the answer to that.
I have been meaning to come back to this thread, which is an emotional one for me considering what has happened to my brother (read the OP if you don't know already).
I believe I was wrong in some ways on this subject. Yes, it's true - sometimes people on this forum will admit to being wrong! Amazing, huh? But I'm a fifty year old woman - I have learned you don't fall over dead from admitting when you're wrong.
Anyway, I am glad I was able to sort through all my thoughts after the tragic events of my brother's life. I had to put those events into perspective, and get my moral compass out again, and unfortunately another tragic event helped me to do so. That event was the Connecticut school shooting and the political events that are unfolding in the wake of that shooting.
These events reminded me that bad law is based on exceptions rather than the rule. In my grief over my brother, and the role that marijuana played in the ruin of his life, I allowed emotions to overrule reason.
So - in conclusion, I have returned to a more objective state of mind - my usual libertarian mindset when it comes to personal rights and freedoms. I do not believe that marijuana use IN ADULTS should be outlawed, generally speaking. I do believe that there should be very stiff penalties for any infringement on the rights of others while one is under the influence of MJ (as there are with alcohol). I believe that minors should be protected from the use, traffic, and outcomes of MJ use by others which negatively affect them. But I do not believe that it is in our best interests to mandate via law that adults do not legally use MJ or sell it to other adults. I believe it's cluttering our legal system, our jails, etc and meanwhile we are missing out on a lot of tax revenue.
I think laws that apply to the use of alcohol could be a guideline to laws for MJ.
I think that just as kids are educated about the dangers of smoking, abusing alcohol, etc, they should be educated about the dangers of smoking weed.
There. That's my position.
What I've learned from this little walk down Ethics Way is how easy it is to allow our EMOTIONS to overrule our REASON. I am seeing that now in the wake of the tragic Connecticut shootings. I learned something about myself during this fiasco with my brother. Now it's my job to keep firm to my convictions and my moral standards in spite of how I FEEL at the moment.
Regardless of your position, whether yay or nay, I think your means to reach that conclusion through reason is very admirable.
Personally, certain types of weed affects me in way in which I'd rather not be affected. The loss of control in some circumstances is frightening and disorienting.
Other times, its relaxing and preferable to alcohol. Just like alcohol I would only "use" on certain occasions. Certainly not daily and probably not through my lungs.
The revenue part, along with the curtailing of drug trafficking, would have to be researched more. As well as being able to pull over inebriated drivers and test them on the spot for impairment.
And of course people and children should be educated on the dangers of all drugs.
Lastly (a pet peeve of mine) the cannibis industry needs to put on a more mature face, and stop having dumb names for different strains, names like "Slippery Wizard" or "Dream Volcano." I find it off putting and just plain dumb.
Regardless of your position, whether yay or nay, I think your means to reach that conclusion through reason is very admirable.
Personally, certain types of weed affects me in way in which I'd rather not be affected. The loss of control in some circumstances is frightening and disorienting.
Other times, its relaxing and preferable to alcohol. Just like alcohol I would only "use" on certain occasions. Certainly not daily and probably not through my lungs.
The revenue part, along with the curtailing of drug trafficking, would have to be researched more. As well as being able to pull over inebriated drivers and test them on the spot for impairment.
And of course people and children should be educated on the dangers of all drugs.
Lastly (a pet peeve of mine) the cannibis industry needs to put on a more mature face, and stop having dumb names for different strains, names like "Slippery Wizard" or "Dream Volcano." I find it off putting and just plain dumb.
About the only thing I can say at this point is let's all hope (or whatever it is you have a preference for) that we're not back here 20 or so years from now talking about pot causing cancer or (insert side affect here) like we have with Cigarettes,alcohol and many prescription drugs.
Now that usage is going to be hitting a way wider slice of the population (who will be watched) if anything unwanted is going to occur it will come out.
Hopefully nothing does but at this point history says otherwise.
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! I applaud your honesty and the thought you put into your stance on MJ. Emotions get the best of all of us sometimes.