Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sex sells. I think subconsciously women are more inclined to by the products when they see beautiful models wearing the garments. They see that as the standard of beauty and want to emulate it.
I don't have a problem with their marketing strategy. I think sexuality should be embraced rather than suppressed. Sex/nudity is much more taboo in the United States than in Europe and our teen pregnancy rates are astronomically higher.
Porn is usually associated with some kind of sexual behavior, not just looking sexy. I see women in the store who look hot, doesn't mean its porn. Even naked bodies are not porn. Many great works of art have naked bodies, both male and female in them. Lets face it, you can't get people to buy your expensive underwear if its displayed just like they used to do in the Sears catalog. I'm a guy and I hardly notice when I see their stuff. Learn to lighten up a bit.
Freedom is freedom. When you try to take your neighbor's freedom, do not expect him or her to respect yours. Is the advertising porn, sure. Very softcore pornography, but it would still qualify. Does that give you a right to go take it down? Not in the least.
For someone to be free, they have to be free even when you don't want them to be. Otherwise, it is faux-freedom. While you might be fine with giving others faux-freedom, you would not care to find that your own freedom was fake.
Objectification of women is not freedom, it's the opposite, it's repression and dehumanization of women. I don't understand why is this concept is so hard to understand? K9coach has done an excellent job explaining this. Freedom has a limit, when it hurts others is no longer freedom. Dehumanization is not good for any society. It breeds all kinds of evil and unhealthy societies.
We need to move foward as humans and stop thinking we have a perfect society. We are not there yet. I think people k9coach are ahead of our time. There will be a time when people will look back at our unheathy view of women and think "What in the world were those people thinking?" "Why did liberals betray their own people?" Just like when I read how people allowed all kinds of atrocities like slavery, stoning, witch hunting, racism and discrimination, I'm sure our society will move foward and see our misogynist society for what it is, an irrational backwards institution.
For that poster who asked about women's opinion, "present?"
Last edited by Sugah Ray; 06-05-2013 at 11:38 AM..
I also recommend the book Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy.
In short, little girls are brainwashed to view themselves as non-human objects with the sole value and purpose of sexually gratifying men. At the very least, you must realize that there is a strong cultural message directed at girls and women that their worth comes from their physical beauty. You also must know that 1 in 3 girls is sexually abused by age 18. ?
Yet, there are millions of women clamoring to model for these advertisements and more - including the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition.
How do you explain this?
I would be remiss if I did not also mention economic factors as a major puzzle piece here. I'm sure you know that historically the only field in which women have out-earned men has been the sex industry. Society has really sent a strong message to women and girls: your worth comes from your physical appearance and ability to sexually arouse and satisfy men. Little girls grow up with this message, internalize it, and become women who view themselves as sex objects.
How sick and sad is it when a woman's best chance of escaping poverty is to sell her body for the sexual pleasure of men?! Since you are so intimately acquainted with all of the SI and "Vicky's" models (enough to comment on their levels of maturity and intelligence) I'm sure you know many if not most of them come from poor backgrounds.
So, now you are saying that Victoria's Secrets and Sports Illustrated are part of the "sex industry"? Really? And you make these outlandish allegations based on exactly what?
I absolutely include pornography as part of the sex industry. The thread topic is about whether or not V.S. imagery qualifies as pornography. Some posters in the thread believe it is pornographic, others think it is not. Desensitization is probably the main factor in determining who will view this imagery as "normal" vs. offensive and degrading. We all agree that V.S. is using sex to sell. I firmly believe that sex is too awesome to be commoditized and exploited for Big Business profit.
Objectification of women is not freedom, it's the opposite, it's repression and dehumanization of women. I don't understand why is this concept is so hard to understand? K9coach has done an excellent job explaining this. Freedom has a limit, when it hurts others is no longer freedom. Dehumanization is not good for any society. It breeds all kinds of evil and unhealthy societies...
I'm going to try and abide by the Mod's red typeface.
Here is a very simple question, with a very simple "yes" or "no" response:
Are women forced to be in these Victoria Secret ads?
To elaborate, do women offered Victoria's Secret modeling jobs have the RIGHT to not take them? Can a model quit doing the job if it exceeds their personal boundaries? Or does V.S. force women to model clothes?
Here is a very simple question, with a very simple "yes" or "no" response: Are women forced to be in these Victoria Secret ads?
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985
To elaborate, do women offered Victoria's Secret modeling jobs have the RIGHT to not take them?
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985
Can a model quit doing the job if it exceeds their personal boundaries? Or does V.S. force women to model clothes?
I don't know the answer to that, depends on their contracts. This is totally unrelated to the post you quoted. I never spoke about the models. It seems you and I disagree on the meaning of "objectification".
Are women forced to be in these Victoria Secret ads?
To elaborate, do women offered Victoria's Secret modeling jobs have the RIGHT to not take them? Can a model quit doing the job if it exceeds their personal boundaries? Or does V.S. force women to model clothes?
Wow, is that all it takes for something to be "ok" in your eyes? There is no forcing at gunpoint involved?
Let's examine some other ways to think about this concept of "free will".
A pit bull involved in organized dog fighting is not technically forced to hurt and kill other dogs, he is trained and conditioned to do so, he is raised to do so, to the point that he "wants" to do it. Dog fighting is wrong. The fact that the Pit Bull wants to do it does not make it right! Pit Bulls who are not raised to be fighters usually do not turn into killers.
Plenty of people in violently abusive relationships stay with their abusive partner. They don't leave the relationship. They are not technically being forced to stay in every case. But more often than not, their background of growing up in an abusive environment has conditioned them to make the "choice" to stay and be abused further; It's all they know. Abuse is wrong. The victim voluntarily staying in the relationship does not make the abuse right! Children who never experience abuse growing up and who have always had their dignity respected will usually become adults who find abuse unacceptable.
Many girls grow up with the message that their worth comes from their physical appearance and 'sex appeal'. They are conditioned to believe that women and girls are objects, not human beings, with the sole purpose of sexually satisfying men. This message bombards girls from every direction and often includes childhood experiences of sexual molestation (remember, 1 in 3 girls is sexually abused by the age of 18!) So when we see adult women making the "choice" to be strippers and "mens magazine" models, maybe we need to consider what would cause a woman to make that decision. As I stated previously money is also woven into the causation here, which always makes for an even more disturbing scenario.
In closing I'd like to make one last analogy. A drug addict gets positive reinforcement along with negative consequences whenever he uses his drug of choice. The release of pleasurable chemicals within the brain often trumps the money issues, relationship problems, and employment complications that go along with drug abuse. Despite all of those unpleasant consequences, the user feels reinforced enough that he continues to use. V.S. models are heavily reinforced for taking their clothes off and striking poses portraying sexual readiness. They can't eat much, they have to endure intensely uncomfortable shoots with powerful male photographers who bully and pressure them into doing things with which they are not comfortable, they are coerced by Victoria's Secret to date celebrities (even if they are married! see the article I posted earlier in the thread), and they are expected to pose for mens magazines like SI "swimsuit", FHM, Maxim, etc. whether they want to or not. But the fame and money are reinforcing enough that these models become addicted and start doing things they never thought they'd do in order to maintain that reinforcement.
Just another perspective about "choice" and "free will". It's not always as simplistic as you attempt to make it appear.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
