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Yes -- it's disgusting that people who live in this rich nation with much opportunity would simply waste it. People come from thousands of miles away to live here because they know there is opportunity here, but the lazy types won't lift a finger to better themselves.
The opportunities people have are different for everyone not everyone is brought up the same. For example a person in a rich family can go to good private schools be taught by great teachers so they can be ready for college while a person from a poor family has to go to public school with more kids, teachers who may not be as good and not be able to get as good an education to prepare them for college. Does that mean the poor person can not succeed and go to college and do well no. It is a lot less likely they will though. Saying people will not better themselves just avoids looking at why some don't like upbringing, education level, intelligence.
Does that mean the poor person can not succeed and go to college and do well no. It is a lot less likely they will though. Saying people will not better themselves just avoids looking at why some don't like upbringing, education level, intelligence.
Part of the situation is natural mobility. Not only do poor have to overcome such disadvantages, but also the obstacle of the government:
"It [government] covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting: such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ~ Alexis de Tocqueville, circa 1830
In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, James L. Buckley, one of the very few men to have served in all three branches of government, noted that the US Code, the entire body of federal statutory law, has gone from one volume before the New Deal to 33 or 34 volumes by the 2012 edition, which is still being printed. But that’s only the tip of the regulatory iceberg. “There are now 235 volumes of regulations that occupy…17 feet of shelf space of six-point or seven-point type,” says Buckley. He points out, “You can find yourself in jail for violating a statute you would never have any reason to know existed.”
But poor people with strong families, like many Hispanics/Asians and others have -- especially immigrants,to find ways in overcoming all or most barriers in order to succeed. The above hassle is not new. In WWII, many small businesses went bust because all the Office of Price Administration OPA. It favored the big businesses so much that John Templeton, the billionaire, started his fortune by investing in the worst shows at the start of WWII (built from even lower 1$ on each stock of the market in the Depression lows). Because the worst shows were badly managed but huge corporations, OPA favored them with armies of accountants to deal with the paperwork. Hell, anyone with a force like that made money, no matter how badly run.
We see the same now with a lot of regulatory agencies. So we come to the US today. The good people are better than ever -- Science/Technology crowd, etc. The bad is about as bad as it was. But as author James Michener stated, it has been the middle which has sagged. The government interference is a big part of that, IMO.
I admire Everyone that works for a living. I don't care what you do or how much you make. As long as you are working hard to provide for yourself and your family, you have my utmost respect.
Most people do not hate the poor. People should be critical on behaviors that take advantage of others. Oppose it. All too often the so called caring for the poor becomes giving the whomever is defined as the poor way too much and dis incentivizing work. Selfishness is a word reserved for those who have more. Those who have less are free to take advantage. That isn't selfish.
And there are the sort of people who wonder why americans are disgusted. When you take advantage, that what happens. If you want genuine help, you must be genuine as well. No one is going to give you a smiley face when you apparently think they owe you. It's a two way street.
This has nothing to do with taking care of the poor. The fact is that too many americans are fully capable of working but choose to hide behind the truly needy and compete for their resources. The fixation on being handed money shows that people want to work less and get disproportionately more. It's greed. Every sense of it
The thing is our society has been prosperous for a long time. Our people take things for granted. They have become whiny entitled children. The democrats and republicans are the parents fighting and the children know nothing about money but want ice cream no matter what. To the point where so many americans fail to examine the privilege on them. They think they are so special because schools teach them self esteem but not a sense of shame.
I believe Americans do because of our obsessive compulsion in individuality. Combine that with religion and everybody gets their ''just deserts''. Mainly, though, I think American's tend to think they raised themselves by their bootstraps and got 'no help'. Though many of us that are doing well today is on the backs of someone else that failed by way of our government or political structure.
Imagine what happened with the War in Iraq. Many of the soldiers are returning home, but many will have many psychological issues. Many will end up homeless, but we won't care even though we voted for them to fight for ''our'' freedoms.
At least this is one side to look at it. And I'm not even getting into the ''wellfare queen'' stereotype and other such things.
Why is the idea of working for somebody else for a living so important for the poor but totally irrelevant for the "Great Gatsby's" out there living on their parent's wealth? This is the great divide in the world. If you are poor you are compelled to work but if you are wealthy you are never forced to work. Why do we not compel everyone, regardless of their wealth or social status, to work and earn their own keep?
Do Americans hate their poor? Or, perhaps more accurately, do wealthy and middle-class Americans have disdain for poor Americans? Also, do poor people in America feel ashamed at their situation? Do they hate themselves for being poor? Do they feel they have less intrinsic value than their wealthier countrymen, that being poor is a moral failing that they are entirely responsible for? Is this a widespread, if rarely mentioned, belief in America? I have come across this notion many times in essays, in travelogues, and in books. As a dual American/Canadian citizen who has traveled quite a bit and seen how different societies think of poverty, I do believe that many Americans have much more disdain for poor Americans than other societies have for their poor. It seems that a great deal of Americans earnestly believe that poverty is the poor person's "fault"; that America is so full of opportunity that anyone who is poor must be dumb, lazy, or a combination of the two. This belief is so widespread in the US that one who had never left that country might never question this belief; might never think that there is another way of thinking.
This passage appears in Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, though he attributes it to another author. When I read it, it rang true for a number of reasons. But I'd like to hear what other Americans think about this passage. Is it correct, or not? Is it partially correct? What do you agree/disagree with about the passage and why? What do you think the author means when he says that being poor in America is a crime? Is this true in any way?
Yes, Americans hate poor people and treat poor people as less than human. Having just left section 8 housing, I can inform the general public, it sucks. Section 8 housing is not a "joy" or "free ride". Frankly the "project" my children and I lived in, was like an episode of cops-,nearly, every night.
If anyone believes TANF is a "free ride" I challenge you to live off of what is allocated to a family of three.
Yes, it is very embarrassing to be on TANF and live in section 8 housing.
How about a "thank you" to the tax payers who foot the bill for them instead of a "Moderator cut: -, pay more!" that we usually get?
It's really amazing that people can call others "greedy" for wanting to keep what they earn, while others, who NEVER get off their lazy Moderator cut: - to contribute even in the slightest are not.
The "poor" suck up by far the most services, do most of the crime and are generally the worst at parenting.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 08-13-2014 at 05:02 PM..
Reason: Language
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