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Women are not in the slightest to blame for rape. Rapists are.
I don't buy the provocative clothing argument either. It's an issue of self-control and knowing right from wrong.
It's good that you are mentioning that "knowing right from wrong" thing.
If a woman wears provocative clothing in public places - she can do whatever she is pleased, but when she invites someone to her home wearing provocative clothing, that's a different story, because she might be sending not-intended signal to that very invited guest. ( Or may be that signal was intended? )
Go figure.
Quote:
Let me put it another way: would you break into someone's house just because you couldn't resist stealing their possessions, knowing full well that despite the urge, it's both wrong and illegal?
Let me put it this way; if you leave the key from your house on a porch, an honest man will not use that key to enter your house, but someone with more opportunistic tendencies might take a chance, knowing how easy it will be to steal. No need to break in even. In this case woman can blame herself for leaving the key on the porch ( take a note - blaming herself, not "being accused," because there is a difference.
When she is accused of leading the man on, and than changing her mind, that's already the whole different story.
No, the jury is there to decide if there is enough evidence to prove that the victim was raped by the accused.
There is no jury verdict as to the victim was to blame.
Is the accused guilty of rape/sexual assault? The jury finds the accused "Guilty" or "Innocent".
Correct. But if the Jury does not find the accused guilty, that basically puts the blame on the woman for her trouble, while she is pointing at the man, does it not? Or it simply implies that there was no trouble, it was consensual sex.
After all I've never heard an official verdict that such and such was found guilty in provoking her own rape.
Yes, in our current rape culture, victims are routinely portrayed as seductive Jezabels, a fourteen year old girl is raped by a male teacher, and the judge, seeing a picture of a young volumptous girl, decides she was no doubt an experienced woman, rather than a child.
Women are expected in this society to present as sex objects, look at clothing in stores for young girls, who have Miley Cyrus as a role model.
The victim is blame, for being sold a bill of goods, that her only value is as a sex object in our twisted, male dominated society. She is to blame for following the rest of the sheepeople.
Sorry I wouldn't want to offend you in any way, because I really don't know the whole story, however I do have couple of comments right away. You are saying "I was in my home with a man I thought was a friend," but "a friend" in the US often means "potential lover," whenever woman might decide to give it a go.
That's number one, and number two, since you knew him for a year, there could have been a lot of other things happening that he could have been perceiving differently comparably to your own ideas or expectations. Just saying.
That's why in courts those cases are not as "cut and dry" as you'd like to see it.
I think it's pretty disgusting that you don't even know her but your first response is to defend her rapist. This is why so many rape victims never tell anyone else they were raped or bother with pressing charges. Society treats all rape victims like criminals and rapists like innocent bystanders who were seduced by some Jezabel.
No one has the right to have sex with a woman or man or child against their will. What part of that is so hard to understand?
No means no. Her rapist simply chose not to care about her feelings. This is not a matter of different perspectives.
Many victims of rape, do not say "No". It is completely their fault for having consensual sex.
Of course, a young girl who is groomed, and seduced by an older male, is partly to blame when being raped, probably because she really is so naive she does not even know she is being raped.
Can we blame a child for ignorance? Not knowing that having sex with an adult male is rape? Even if she did, "consent"....
Last edited by jasper12; 09-13-2013 at 09:06 PM..
Reason: Edit
It's good that you are mentioning that "knowing right from wrong" thing.
If a woman wears provocative clothing in public places - she can do whatever she is pleased, but when she invites someone to her home wearing provocative clothing, that's a different story, because she might be sending not-intended signal to that very invited guest. ( Or may be that signal was intended? )
Go figure.
Let me put it this way; if you leave the key from your house on a porch, an honest man will not use that key to enter your house, but someone with more opportunistic tendencies might take a chance, knowing how easy it will be to steal. No need to break in even. In this case woman can blame herself for leaving the key on the porch ( take a note - blaming herself, not "being accused," because there is a difference.
When she is accused of leading the man on, and than changing her mind, that's already the whole different story.
Here we go again. Simple question. Define provocative. As described many times, different for different people.
You have the right to leave a key on your porch. She has the right to leave a key on her porch. While I agree, she will be putting herself in more danger because men like you will rationalize that because she is a woman she doesn't but that doesn't make it right.
Gee, I really like my neighbor's $100K Audi R8, so I shouldn't have to control my impulses, because it looks good and it would be fun to drive. I think I'll take the keys from him and take it for a spin without his consent!
Seriously, are men so impulsive that a woman dressing a certain way makes men incapable to self-restraint? Rape is not about sex, it's about control and power. That's why even elderly women and nuns get raped.
The problem with this theory is that it's not the women who wear risque clothes who are the ones getting raped in many cases. Women who dress modestly, even in a long skirt, women dressed in jeans and a men's shirt to hide the breasts, girls too young to know what sex is, grandmothers, peasant women in traditional dress, women accompanied by their husband or boyfriend (in the cases in India), these are the women who are getting raped. Rape has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of underwear a woman wears, that's preposterous. Most women in the world who have been raped have never heard of Victoria's Secret.
The question is: why are so many men inclined toward violence? Why can't men abide by the law and public order? Part of the reason is that they know they can get away with it. But that doesn't explain why they're inclined toward violence in the first place.
No, that's an assertion that some researchers seem to doubt. Sex Assault: A Crime Against the Young & Attractive?
(been wanting to post that somewhere for a long time)
If it weren't so politically incorrect to discuss whether the victim might have unintentionally encouraged her victimization, maybe we'd understand these things better and be more able to prevent them. Personally I suspect that a woman's apparent body shape has a lot to do with her chances of being raped. Or maybe pheromones are involved, but that would be very hard to investigate.
You bring up an important point in the second paragraph. In more than a few cases, rapists are too immature - for example, not even of legal drinking age - or intoxicated to the point of losing control of themselves and their demons. In combatting rape, it would also be helpful to take that into account.
100% blaming men isn't working well for anyone but ideologues.
There have been so many simple and great examples such as this one in attempt to explain the reason why clothing women wear or their appearance in general is not to blame in a rape situation.
But unfortunately, there are many men , too many I'm afraid who just don't get it and never will.
These men (especially Asian men) terrify me and they make me hate being a woman. I worry about being raped whenever I go outside or even when I'm in my own home (what if someone breaks in?). I hate having to constantly look over my shoulder, at least more often than the average man does.
How can anyone truly believe that a man has the RIGHT to invade a woman's body just because he can see bare skin? Because they "can't" control their impulses? That's funny, because beaches are packed with women in bikinis - the least amount of clothing a woman can wear without being naked - and yet I don't see these women being dragged off by hordes of men to be raped.
Isn't it interesting how rapists only seem to "lose control" of their sexual urges whenever the rape victim is alone, weakened and vulnerable? Or when the rapists outnumber the victim (in cases of gangrape)? What a coincidence!
Rapists rape because they choose to. Even if the rape victim was wearing jeans and a sweater, rapists and their supporters would just make up another flimsy excuse to escape responsibility for their own actions.
Men are not animals. In fact, comparing rapists to animals is an insult and great misconception, since most animals have complex mating rituals. The male usually courts the female and the female picks her mate from the best possible suitor.
I will agree that there ARE certain things that women (outside of family rape) can do to reduce the probability of being raped, like not accepting drinks from strangers or getting drunk at parties - but ultimately, the greatest burden of responsibility will ALWAYS be on the rapist because rapists made a choice to rape! I am sick and tired of people, especially men (whom I view with suspicion) trying to make up excuses and defending rapists.
This topic has clearly been exhausted as a source of debate at a higher level, thank you to all participants.
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