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Old 01-11-2014, 09:40 PM
 
Location: moved
13,656 posts, read 9,720,920 times
Reputation: 23481

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighteyes View Post
According to a recent (right-leaning) Bloomberg study, the overall quality of Australia's health care system ranks 7th in the world. The overall quality of the United States' health care system ranks 46th. Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

The per-capita cost of Australia's health care system is 5th-most-expensive in the world. The per-capita cost of the United States' health care system is 2nd-most-expensive in the world -- (only tiny, 9th-ranked Switzerland is higher). Simply put, OUCH!

In good-ol' America - the land of the free and the home of the brave - us rank-and-file citizens get to pay FAR MORE for our health care while receiving FAR LESS for our money, quality-wise.

...
I'm venturing somewhat off topic, but the subject merits mentioning. The American health care system IS [probably] the best in the world from the viewpoint of medical research, the development and certification of new drugs, new methods in medical practice, and new medical devices. There is, I think, a kind of reverse subsidy from the many to the few. The average American likely pays more for health care than do the majority of his first-world counterparts elsewhere, and it is questionable whether he receives better care or has faster access to care. But, all of those plain-folks paying for health insurance etc., support a lavishly well-funded and well-organized research enterprise, which advances the medical arts. The rest of the First World can enjoy good-quality, state-of-the-art medical care at a discount, because the seminal R&D advances were made courtesy of the American system.

The same reasoning, I think, applies to product-development and innovation in many other things. For instance, America is home to some of very best universities in the world - disproportionately so. Nevertheless, statistics abound, about the paucity of educational attainment by the average American. Americans don't necessarily enjoy the best things, or obtain them with the least fuss or expense. That's not what the American system emphasizes. Instead, the American system emphasizes a channeling of resources from the common to the especially (the exceptionally???) enterprising.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Troy Hill, The Pitt
1,174 posts, read 1,587,118 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Hold the USA back from what?

And who says the founding fathers are the best men of all time? They were just men. But, they did an amazing thing. They wrote a document and created a system that lasted. One that is democratic, doesn't involve dictators, or military rule. They created a system where the citizens can vote to oust a president, and have done so.

How many revolutionaries can say the same?

Perhaps it is the critical thinking skills that have convinced many Americans that this is the best country. Analyze your options in other countries and let me know which of the other countries you'd rather move to. And don't just pick one issue/benefit. I mean the entire reality of living there - all costs, personal rights, justice system, tax system, job opportunities, educational opportunities, equal rights, etc., etc.

And then, if you do this homework and find another country you think you'd really rather live in, let me know, and why.

This is somewhat along the lines of what the OP is getting at, and to answer his question: yes it is absolutely holding us back. The US ranks very poorly in a number of categories and has a great many problems in need of addressing. Yet even those problems with which we know there to be an effective means of dealing with them the general public resists many of these solutions because they come from overseas. Our nationalism and our xenophobia doesn't do us many favors.


Also despite your claim to them being "just men", we sure as heck don't portray them as anything but minor dieties. Growing up we don't learn about them as mortal and fallible biengs, and thus we don't learn much from them. The only reason for this is due to the fact that because of our exceptionalism they can't have flaws and be real people like you and I. They have to be gods.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:46 PM
OHW
 
Location: Portland, OR
102 posts, read 147,757 times
Reputation: 251
I hate American exceptionalism because it keeps so many, mostly the right wing, from accepting that we have sever deficiencies in a lot of important areas. Here's the right wings view of our problems:
-Education? Can't fix it, because it costs money. Any additional tax, regardless of the overall benefit to society, is socialism.
-Healthcare? Just deny how horrible it is, and when you have to actually acknowledge that it's bad, suggest that any other system is socialist.
-Obesity/weight? It's "big government" to suggest that there should be regulation on what food companies can feed you. 1984 anyone!?
-Gun violence? Um... video games. Wait, the UK, France, Denmark, Australia, etc... all have the same video games? Well... um, movies then! They don't get our movies, do they? Oh, they do. Can we blame the gays maybe? We just need to blame anyone but the people who put guns in the hands of dangerous people.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Troy Hill, The Pitt
1,174 posts, read 1,587,118 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHW View Post
I hate American exceptionalism because it keeps so many, mostly the right wing, from accepting that we have sever deficiencies in a lot of important areas. Here's the right wings view of our problems:
-Education? Can't fix it, because it costs money. Any additional tax, regardless of the overall benefit to society, is socialism.
-Healthcare? Just deny how horrible it is, and when you have to actually acknowledge that it's bad, suggest that any other system is socialist.
-Obesity/weight? It's "big government" to suggest that there should be regulation on what food companies can feed you. 1984 anyone!?
-Gun violence? Um... video games. Wait, the UK, France, Denmark, Australia, etc... all have the same video games? Well... um, movies then! They don't get our movies, do they? Oh, they do. Can we blame the gays maybe? We just need to blame anyone but the people who put guns in the hands of dangerous people.
As I see it the problem with the right wing is that they fail to see beyond personal responsibility as the cause for any of the problems above that you've listed. Its easier to blame others than it is to understand the ways that our institutions have failed or need to be restructured. It also allows one to live in a bubble of delusion that you are protected by how responsible you are.
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Santa FE NM
3,490 posts, read 6,512,801 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
I didn't say love it or leave it. I asked you to convince me another country is better.
I don't have to. First, the fact that you even asked the question reveals your innermost doubt. Second, even the most cursory, and dispassionate, review of the facts -- as documented in any number of extremely valid studies -- will show that the good ol' US of A is rapidly becoming a member of the Third-World.

For the moment let's focus on one simple pair of facts.

In the world's Top Nations as defined by right-leaning Bloomberg's assessment of the overall quality of health care, the good ol' US of A ranks 46th --- barely ahead of Serbia and Brasil. On the other hand, the per-capita cost of the US of A's healthcare is the second-most-expensive in the world -- only tiny (9th-ranked) Switzerland costs more. In other words, the average American taxpayer pays FAR MORE for health care whose quality is FAR LESS than what's available in the rest of the First- (and Second-) World.

My personal experience supports this. In my travels I required emergency and hospital care in fourteenth-ranked Ireland (2009) and fifth-ranked Spain (2013). In both cases the quality of care I received far exceeded that which I would have gotten in the good-ol' US of A. (BTW, I know far more than the average bear about health care.) Now, here's the real kicker. Since I am not a citizen of the European Union, I had to pay full price for the care I received. I did so willingly because it was, comparatively, so little. In turn I submitted these charges to my American medical insurance carrier for payment. They paid ALL of them -- the full amount -- without even one question.

I won't try to convince you that another country is better -- you're halfway there already. I will simply say that ALL of the First-World countries -- in Europe and elsewhere -- are better than the good-ol' US of A.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes (born in America, proud to be an American -- other than for the obvious)
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:32 PM
 
72 posts, read 83,248 times
Reputation: 130
^ Spot on

I also believed the "We are the freest and greatest" propaganda growing up. Then I got a passport and saw how life off the North American island really is.
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Santa FE NM
3,490 posts, read 6,512,801 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenbear5599 View Post
^ Spot on

I also believed the "We are the freest and greatest" propaganda growing up. Then I got a passport and saw how life off the North American island really is.
If anyone REALLY wants an answer to the Original Question, all ya gotta do is....

First, get a passport.

Second, actually visit -- with an open and receptive mind -- any of the countries in the European Union. Don't take an organized tour because they're only interested in your money. You'll never truly get to know the country or countries you visit, and certainly not the people who comprise those countries.

Third, take the time and effort to live with the people; to drink with the people; to talk with the people. What you'll learn will surprise the H*ll outa you. For one thing, they ALL know a lot more about politics, both national and world, than at least 80% of Americans.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,989 posts, read 2,536,798 times
Reputation: 2363
All this talk about “American exceptionalism” is pernicious because it tends to imply that America needs to be exceptional to deserve what other countries rightfully take for granted.

America is definitely exceptional in our recommended daily intake of bull****. To Finns or Japanese or other sensible folk, their countries don’t have to be special to anybody except themselves. They need not be proposition nations, nor cities upon a hill redeeming the world, nor the rightful destinations of other countries’ huddled masses, nor the scourges of wrongdoing in the Levant. Instead, they are the past, present, and future homes of their own people. So their responsibility is to be good stewards for their heirs.

In contrast, the vague grandiosity of the ideology of American exceptionalism makes Americans easier to manipulate with contrived narratives.
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Santa FE NM
3,490 posts, read 6,512,801 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
All this talk about “American exceptionalism” is pernicious because it tends to imply that America needs to be exceptional to deserve what other countries rightfully take for granted.

America is definitely exceptional in our recommended daily intake of bull****. To Finns or Japanese or other sensible folk, their countries don’t have to be special to anybody except themselves. They need not be proposition nations, nor cities upon a hill redeeming the world, nor the rightful destinations of other countries’ huddled masses, nor the scourges of wrongdoing in the Levant. Instead, they are the past, present, and future homes of their own people. So their responsibility is to be good stewards for their heirs.

In contrast, the vague grandiosity of the ideology of American exceptionalism makes Americans easier to manipulate with contrived narratives.
aplcr0331:

Dang, you're good!

-- Nighteyes
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