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IMHO - We should legalize, regulate quality and sell the stuff in government stores like booze in New Hampshire. The use some of the profits to lower state taxes and use the rest to set up rehab clinics for those that want to stop using the more addictive substances.
This would be worth an experiment in some city/county/state, but which one would be the best candidate? It might make sense to start it somewhere with low population and poor economy, with the fewest children - then add some government funds to set up a good hospital/rehab facility and beef up law enforcement. I'm sure everybody can nominate someplace like that. Can you imagine the political firestorm that would erupt?
I nominate New Orleans and Las Vegas and Washington, D.C. and Clovis, NM.
This would be worth an experiment in some city/county/state, but which one would be the best candidate? It might make sense to start it somewhere with low population and poor economy, with the fewest children - then add some government funds to set up a good hospital/rehab facility and beef up law enforcement. I'm sure everybody can nominate someplace like that. Can you imagine the political firestorm that would erupt? I nominate New Orleans and Las Vegas. America
This may be worth a try in a massive country like America. Here, in a small country like Britain, addicts would just flock to the cheap, legally supplied, drug area. Plus some folks would move the cheap legal drugs, and sell them for profit elsewhere. It is complicated, and I am sure some mistakes would be made. Eventually, the correct way of going about things would be worked out.
I watched a programme last night with an English journalist Louis Theroux, interviewing young black inmates in an American jail. Each one talked about gang culture, and turf wars over drugs supply. It is a massive, expensive problem. People are dying because of illegal drugs, and the money to be made from this business. We all have to try something different. What we are doing now just isn't working, and it's getting worse.
The last of the "lesser drugs" - pot - could be legalized for all I care. I don't understand the fascination with drug use - why would somebody want to pay money to mess with their brain and hurt themselves? - but I also don't approve of my tax dollars being wasted chasing down "evil criminals" with an ounce of pot and then tossing them in prison for years. It just doesn't make good economic sense to keep this up.
Now, the serious drugs - the ones that flat-out ruin lives in a short order - no, there's no benefit to that. You've got PCP nuts killing people, meth heads burning down buildings, and all that drek. No good can come from any of that.
The other thing is that even if pot was legal, irresponsible use would still have the same effect. If somebody wants to smoke that crud on the weekends, fine. If he goes out and drives around stupidly while under the influence, he gets hit in the same way as somebody drinking and driving. That seems fair since it protects public safety while not wasting money chasing after these people who aren't hurting others.
legalize pot and create red light districts for the hard stuff. Provide clean needles and free drugs. This would reduce HIV and hepatitis , and it would put drug dealers out of business.
Why would it put those dealers out of business?
Where are the hard core addicts getting $ for drugs, legal or otherwise?
IMO there are 3 drugs that are very dangerous..... Heroin, Crystal Meth and Crack.
All highly addictive and destroys lives.
I can understand legalizing the other drugs but not these 3.
Heroin was once a very useful and popular medical drug.
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman
I firmly believe that we need to encourage a return to traditional values. However, criminalizing drug possession will not wipe drug gangs off the map. We need to tackle drug cartels in order to shut down drug production at its origin. Moreover, we should discourage youths from getting into drug culture when they are young. If we do these things we will make America a safe and more optimistic country.
If we plan on shutting down drug cartels; maybe we should hold our own Gov accountable for them being as powerful as some of them are....just saying.
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Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Well the problem with highly addictive drugs is that people will steal to support their habit. They'll ignore their kids. They won't pay bills. Lots of problems.
People do that NOW, without drugs! It's called **** poor parenting!
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Originally Posted by brownbagg
because drug screw up the normal senses and even by doing them at home you are putting workers at risk at your employment the next day. remember pilot can't drink within 12 hour of duty. how you going keep a crane operator from smoking dope at breakfast
Hun, people live day to day higher than a kite on PRESCRIBED drugs from their Dr.'s that are WAY worse than some illegal drugs.
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Originally Posted by KaraG
How could these drugs ever even be approved through the FDA when it can take decades for helpful drugs to get approve? A dear friend is waiting for a new cancer drug to be approved to the point where he can get in a trial.
One of their dilemmas was that the US was relaxing laws on marijuana which meant higher demand, therefore it was hard for them to do much on their end because the cartels follow the money. So just because we legalize it doesn't mean it won't still be made & sold underground.
Quite a few of the current illegals such as heroin, cocaine, and pot were ALREADY cleared through the FDA years ago, before they were made illegal.
As far as the cartels go, if the US would re-allow the growth of pot to farmers again, that would cut the balls right off the Mexican pot cartels, AND stimulate the economy by bringing back a use for farmers in this country!
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Originally Posted by k9coach
Take away those deterrents and I'm left with no reason important enough TO ME to exercise my self control and abstain.
Good to know you life means so little to yourself, that if everything was legal tomorrow, you are just certain you would become an addict.
The only thing stopping you, is YOU!
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Originally Posted by nightlysparrow
Legalize the natural? As long as you're OK with the fact that...
And since you did not wish there to be an "illegal" category, Heroin would therefore also be obtainable by prescription, like in the UK (which their National Health Service pays for, I might add).
Heroin is made from opium poppies, and cocaine is from coco leaves. Both "natural" as well.
Also, both have medical uses, and in some countries are preferred over drugs that are legal in the US. Heroin, is used more in some places since there is lesser side effects that other pain meds, and cocaine is used to combat jet lag in countries such as Peru. The effects of drinking coca tea are a mild stimulation and mood lift. Cocaine was historically useful as a topical anesthetic in eye and nasal surgery, although it is now predominantly used for nasal and lacrimal duct surgery.
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Originally Posted by brownbagg
every body trying to make drugs legal, why, why would anybody want to associate with anybody that screw up on drugs. why would you want you brother, dad, mom, co worker , so out of it they don't know where they was.
my brother dies from smoking weed, it final rot his brain, space cadet.
i think drug users ought to put down, or at least thirty years in prison. I have no use for a dope head or one anywhere around me.
If that's true, then he would be the FIRST person I have ever heard of that died from pot OD!
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Originally Posted by AngelEyez
Big Pharma stands to lose millions if people have the ability to start growing their own medicine.
People ALREADY have the ability to grow our own medicine. Chamomile, fever few, self heal, echinecha, lavender, sage, marshmallow, lovage, borage, rosemary, parsley, just to name a few.
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Originally Posted by Phrygian Cap
Some drugs are truly vile and dangerous, and can lead some users to behave in unacceptable ways. But that doesn't justify prohibiting the use or possession of the drug. It is the unacceptable behavior that should be addressed, not the drug.
And 90% of them are prescribed by Dr.'s and created by Pharmaceutical Companies.
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Originally Posted by English Dave
Well, some of those people grow poppies to be made into opium. Fields everywhere full of poppies. That country is the major supplier of the worlds heroin. Growing more than ever before. Ask yourself this..... why are we not burning these fields of poppies? All those helicopters..... spotting the flowers is easy. How come we allow those farmers to continue supplying much of the worlds heroin? Have a good long think about it.
Short answer? MONEY, plain and simple.
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Originally Posted by tofur
Because it makes way too much sense for this government to take action on it. That, and there are much more insidious reasons no action is being taken despite the utter failure of the war on drugs (government and police jobs, the private prison industry, booze and cig companies lobbying against legalization, etc). When the president admits that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol yet won't take any steps towards legalizing it or even moving it off it's schedule 1 perch(where it sits alongside stuff like heroin), you know something is up and there are ulterior motives at play and that citizens best interests are not in the forefront.
Do you know the history behind pot in the US? It was ulterior motives that made it illegal in the first place!
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Originally Posted by eddie1278
Legalize it. If more people die from it then that's simply natural selection. Everybody knows drugs can kill you even children know this, so if you decide to use them you deserve anything that happens to you.
You don't touch a hot stove top on purpose because you know it will burn you. You shouldn't use drugs because it most likely will kill you.
I hear people say well people make mistakes. No. Using drugs is not a mistake it's a choice. You can't accidentally put a crack pipe to your mouth you CHOOSE to.
This may sound harsh to some but reality is harsh.
I agree!
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Originally Posted by KaraG
It seems that most of the "let's legalize" crowd here are occasional pot smokers or have never used or been around other drug users.
I'm just a middle class grandma, but we have had two family members go through a period of drug addiction. One was very severe, filled with violence, stealing, destruction of property, total personality change - a terrifying long ordeal that thank the Lord, turned itself around and she is now living a happy normal life.
Methinks you assume too much. I am NOT a pot user, or any other illegals thanks. Nor have I been sheltered to where I haven't had an addict affect me personally.
Even with that ordeal (still ongoing, BTW) I think they should be legal; but then again I think suicide and medically assisted suicide should be legal. Only truly free peoples have the choice to end their lives if they choose to.
Let's be honest, quite a few of those illegal drugs have VALID medical uses, and if someone chooses to use them, that should be THEIR choice.
Now if they go stupid, and OD then that is on them.
If they commit a crime, yes... the question, however, is whether personal USE alone should be a crime. Meaning, if one chooses to sit at home and smoke weed or shoot heroin (not leaving the house while under the influence), should they face criminal charges for doing so? In my opinion they should not, and it should only become a criminal offense when they actually harm someone else - i.e. stealing for drug money, driving high, or physical harm to another.
Are you just talking about hard drugs, or including marijuana in this assumption? If you are including the latter, I would say you are far from correct... I personally am a regular (legal medical) smoker, and lead a very "useful" and productive life. I have a Master's Degree, full-time professional job, nice apartment, paid-off car, etc. Nobody is hurt by my use of this substance, and luckily my state agrees that people like me don't need to be charged with a crime.
Now if you're referring to HARD drugs, I would say your statement is mostly accurate. But again, should we throw people in jail (or even force rehab on them) if they are only ruining THEIR lives? Being on government assistance throws a slight wrench in that, but still doesn't change my opinion on the overall matter.
So why isn't alcohol illegal anymore? How about cigarettes, certain pharmaceuticals, junk food, ?? If laws were only about curtailing "bad behavior," none of those those things would be allowed... so basically we're just cherry-picking, and if you have the bad luck of being into one of the cherry-picked illegal substances, you can face serious charges for it. Meanwhile, any adult can go get WASTED off tequila or smoke cigarettes until their lungs are black, and face no legal consequences (unless they drive drunk) for it. How is that fair? I should be free to destroy my body or life however I see fit, and it shouldn't be the government's business until others are put at risk.
Btw, when you say "illegal drugs" that is a confusing statement. Why? Because, while this might sound ridiculously obvious, a drug is only illegal if the government determines it to be. And given the changing laws right now, one drug can be legal until you cross a state line. Maybe you meant to say "if the law says don't use DRUGS, you don't do them." But that wouldn't be a clear statement either, since plenty of drugs are not only legal but endorsed by government entities. So no, it's not about morality or personal safety - it's about money and politics, and anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.
Nothing. Let them be addicts, and eventually they will either kill themselves, learn to be a functioning addict, or quit on their own. Forcing people to seek help accomplishes little, and in most cases they'll just continue using once they're out. As for your orange-picking idea, what if this casual user has a productive REAL job? Would you suggest making them quit that job, just to go pick oranges for the city? That is a horrible idea, since chances are they'd be unable to go back to work after their "sentence." So if that were the situation, you would have just added another American to the government dole.
Speaking of not being able to force help on those who don't want it: One of my good friends recently faced criminal charges for pot possession (she lives in backwards Idaho), and has to be on probation + drug tests for two years now. We spoke shortly after her probation started, and she said something like "I can't wait until my probation is over, so I can go back to smoking - I miss it!" Not only that, but she plans to move out of that state as soon as possible.
Is that really true? I don't know, but curious to do the research now!
Well said!
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Originally Posted by oceangaia
The comparison is about principles and concepts, that the essence of all laws is to restrain the desires of the individual for the welfare of society, and that enforcement is eternal for as long as human nature is what it is. So basing your argument for legalizing on people "doing what they want to do" is ridiculous. Come up with a better alternative.
The harm by drug addiction is far beyond addicts committing crimes to pay for it. It also includes spouses and dependent children. Over 50% of all drug rehab is court ordered, over 70% for heroin. Take away criminal punishment and millions won't get the treatment they need.
And if an addict doesn't wanna be clean, no amount of jail time or rehab will change their mind. I have seen it with an addict I know. He's been to rehab 16 times, and in jail for a min of almost 3 yrs for various offenses and is on parole currently, yet he just failed a drug test, and doesn't know what his next move is.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
Is anyone still actually advocating that ALL drugs in all forms be universally legal?
Is anyone taking them seriously?
Despite the OP's poorly phrased topic Q blather about instituting OTHER forms of
regulation and control... the basic point is still quite valid.
Very simply:
Re-Medicalize the synthesized pharmaceuticals and return their control and distribution
to the doctors and pharmacists who would monitor quality, dosages and all the rest.
If the idiots who use these poisons wish to wallow in it... let them.
If they might seek to engage in some counseling to get off them... offer it.
Whatever it might take to the black market, criminality and terrorist funding out of the picture.
Re-legalize the natural state substances which should be legal by default.
Then stop confusing those who might engage at this level now and then with narcotics addicts.
hth
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Originally Posted by tijlover
And meet our newest crop of addicts: seniors addicted to pain medication from pharmacies!
I work in a LTC facility, there's no end to it, on a given shift, from this senior crowd: Where's my pain pill?
And most of them aren't even in pain! They're addicted! Drug addiction knows no age!
I know a couple people that have moved from lortabs to oxys to fenetal(sp) to finally heroin, and it started due to a script happy Dr. They vary in age from early 20's to their late 60's.
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Originally Posted by totsuka
Well, you are late to that party....our legal system has been tossing people into jail for years and use these people for forced labor too....
At the end of the day..what is better? A numb, drugged out society that just stays high with little regard for their actions?..end up in the emergency room or dead from an overdose....not adding to society but working to destroy it....every society has it's limits and there is little if any good encouraging people to self-destruct...
Over half of our society is already drugged up and numb from prescription meds currently. What's the difference in that and "illegal" drugs that at one time were legal?
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Originally Posted by totsuka
What does crime and criminal activity cost society? 25k to lock someone up?....that's a good investment that saves ten times that......look at crime ridden cities across America...people have fled the cities decades ago because of crime....what does that cost? All those private security firms people hire to protect their homes...what does that cost?..what is the cost to the economy?...money that could be invested in education, industry, etc...all tossed into preventing or catching criminals....
Oh yes, cause people who have unpaid parking tickets, bounced checks, failure to appears, pot smokers, etc... are such dangers to society they need to be removed and society protected right?!
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Originally Posted by lucky4life
legalize pot and create red light districts for the hard stuff. Provide clean needles and free drugs. This would reduce HIV and hepatitis , and it would put drug dealers out of business. Use the money that we we're spending on the war on drugs and imprisoning these people for state rehab centers for those that wish to clean up or those caught with hard drugs outside of a red light district.
Some countries already do this, with good results!
Sure we do. Someone who thinks state/local/federal governments will ALLOW UNTAXED FREE DRUGS.
Don't get me wrong, I think the current situation is unsustainable.
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