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I didn't know where else to put this and I am NOT trying to start a flame war or anything...this is an honest question. Please respond respectfully.
Why is it that if a white person says "I'm moving to Y, please suggest an area with mostly or all WHITE people," people assume they're racist (which they almost certainly are), but when someone posts asking about apartments with "decent <insert immigrant group here> community," nobody calls them out for being racist?
I say this as a Jewish woman who enjoys her diverse community.
Good topic actually, one I've thought of often, even when it comes to my preferences.
As humans, we tend to gravitate towards what is familiar or comfortable; be it race/ethnicity, income, faith or education. Then there are those who are just racist. On the surface, it's hard to tell.
I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be around people of your ethnic background. It's a basic human need to want to belong, to want to find common interests with others.
Wanting to be around people because you share the same skin color, well, that's just not very smart.
How about someone who doesn't want to live around their "own people"? I'm Hispanic. I won't move into an Hispanic neighborhood. It isn't because I hate them. It's because they are typically run down and full of crime. I didn't create that reality and I don't feel racist (or self loathing) for wanting to avoid it. I will move where the crime is low and the neighborhood is taken care of, don't really care who lives there.
I don't consider that stuff racism, because there is no power. That doesn't mean it isn't wrong. But that falls into the hatred/prejudice category. In the context of the US, black people can't racist. But we can absolutely be prejudiced.
I had a snappy reply to this, but then I realized that my post would do nothing more than push this thread down the path from a legitimate, honest, question about immigrant groups to a petty squabble about whether African Americans (technically an ethnic group and not a race) can be racist against Whites (technically a color and not a race).
Instead, I leave you by quoting (again) the official definition of racism:
Quote:
racism (noun)
1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
2. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
prejudice (noun)
1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Note that it does not include the words "power", "minority", or "majority".
Wow you seem really disconnected. So the fact that the majority of government jobs in ATL are staffed by African Americans doesn't afford them the power to discriminate against whites? Of course they can because they hold positions of power in that metro that affect everyone.
So let's just hypothetically pretend that the fact there are lots of black government is representative of the US. Do you think that the average black person who gets pulled over by the cops in GA gets the benefit of the doubt under the assumption they work in government? No. How about the fact that GA leads the nation in sending people to jail because of minor infractions due to the private probation process? How Private Probation Firms Are Landing Poor Georgians In Jail | ThinkProgress
Don't you think these power wielding administrators would eliminate these policies that disproportionately impact black people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore
I had a snappy reply to this, but then I realized that my post would do nothing more than push this thread down the path from a legitimate, honest, question about immigrant groups to a petty squabble about whether African Americans (technically an ethnic group and not a race) can be racist against Whites (technically a color and not a race).
Instead, I leave you by quoting (again) the official definition of racism:
Note that it does not include the words "power", "minority", or "majority".
It is in human nature to hate people, but that hatred doesn't lead to any systemic problems without a power structure. There is no power element to prejudice, but "races" would be useless if there wasn't meaning in the classifications of such. It really goes back to what the purpose of race is, particularly in the American context. We used race as a proxy to decide who had the right to vote, who counted as a full person, who was trapped in slavery, and who got to use which bathroom where. I could go around picking any race as "superior" any day of the week, but it has no meaning without a power structure to enforce the hierarchy.
It's an interesting question, and I'm speculating as a white woman. I think recent immigrants already feel a little weird and would like to have at least a few neighbors they can connect with culturally. Also they would probably like a neighborhood where they can find familiar groceries or whatever. I don't think they are being racist, just somewhat comfortable in a very different environment. And I also hope this doesn't become a flame war, since we could all learn from each other.
Yes but how is this not "racist" under the true sense of the word?
Wow you seem really disconnected. So the fact that the majority of government jobs in ATL are staffed by African Americans doesn't afford them the power to discriminate against whites? Of course they can because they hold positions of power in that metro that affect everyone.
There have been a few black politicians that have wasted no love on White people. Robert Mugabe, Nelson Mandela, and Coleman Young come to mind.
...people assume they're racist (which they almost certainly are)...
I don't feel someone is racist if they want to live around "like people". Not sure why everyone is making such a huge deal about all this racist stuff lately. Guess it is the flavor of the month or so. Goodness, I don't want to live in the middle of the ghetto, so I guess that makes me racist. Whatever!
I see the double standard; I just don't think racism is OK, and having worked with many Indian and Chinese nationals...Indians being the ones most prone to ask where to find other Indians in my experience...I've found both groups overall to be more racially biased than other groups. There are exceptions to every rule, don't get me wrong...but it seems to me that even otherwise well-assimilated Indians only socialize with other Indians and strongly prefer to live in communities with a strong/large Indian population. These are just personal observations, mind you.
I've seen people point the finger at Dallas's Jewish community, particularly Orthodox groups, for congregating in certain areas; people think it's racist. However, for very observant Jews, there is a practical reason for congregating together: they walk to temple on Saturdays, and since the entire family goes from babies to pregnant women to elderly people, it is far easier on them if they live within a mile or two of the temple instead of across town since they would have to walk there in order to attend. For some it's a health issue too; if you're wearing heavy clothing (which many do) and head coverings (which many do), it's dangerous to walk more than a couple of miles in 100+ degree heat. I was raised Conservative by Conservative parents. I now align with the Reform movement, whereas my parents have drifted towards Modern Orthodox and are now quite observant. They walk to temple on Saturdays, and my mother is a mobility-impaired stroke patient. She uses a scooter with a Shabbat module. No joke.
Now if an ethnic group was entirely dependent on traveling by foot in order to attend religious services, that would be different. I wouldn't think wanting to congregate together was racist. However, this is not the case for the overwhelming majority of groups in this country.
And I'm not saying that there isn't racism among Jewish people either. There is. Some Orthodox communities are so insular that they do not even speak to outsiders unless it's absolutely necessary. They even have their own private security and do not rely on local police. However, these groups are very extreme and constitute a tiny minority of Orthodox Jews in America, and the Orthodox are the smallest group of American Jews...so they're a tiny minority within a minority within a minority.
This was a very enlightening post and interesting regarding a culture different from mine.
I think people naturally want to live, predominately, within their cultural groups. I enjoy people of different races and ethnicities. I find much to learn about and am willing to do so. On the other hand, do we socialize a lot? No. I interact with several different immigrant populations on a regular basis. I have felt they wanted less to do with me, socially, than I did with them but, we had a mutual respect and knew much about each others families.
The word racist has lost its meaning in this country. It is so bandied about for the least infraction that it has become a joke.
Because the reason for the question is usually different.
When white people ask it, they usually want to isolate themselves from other racial or ethnic groups they dislike or distrust. When non-white people ask it, they want to avoid becoming isolated. The motives tend to be exactly the opposite.
Now, explain to me why if you are white, it is automatically assumed you want to isolate yourself from other groups. Why can it not be the same as you say with a non-white, you want to avoid becoming isolated ? Someone posted earlier about living in a community that was very diverse and they felt isolated. (they were Swedish)
Why it is ALWAYS assumed that the white persons motives are racist. I am so sick of this.
IMO a post asking for instance about a "russian community" is not trying to exclude areas that contain people that are not Russian. They may just want a place where people speak Russian occasionally because they miss using the language. They may have some specific food interests that not mainstream in the U.S. and wish to be near stores that cater to them.
When someone asks about finding an all white community, it is the exclusion of others rather than the inclusion of factors that help them. It is unlikely that you would find all Russian or all Jewish community, but you might find areas where the views, languages, etc are expressed commonly.
I do believe that it can tread a difficult line, but to me, the difference is seeking inclusion vs exclusion.
For those that still don't seem to get it. Russian Community (for example) is not ALL RUSSIAN. The op example suggested people seeking an "ALL WHITE" community. It can be a Russian or Jewish or Black or Hispanic or Japanese culture without being 100% of any of those things. If half the people were Japanese and spoke Japanese and discussed things that happened in Japan, I would call it a Japanese community. If someone is looking for an ALL WHITE community, they are looking for the complete exclusion of other people, thoughts, and cultures. That is very different from looking for something that includes their interest.
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Of course they can because they hold positions of power in that metro that affect everyone.
