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My answer would be certainly yes. And this is why...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore
This topic was threatening to derail another thread, so I decided to start a new one. For purposes of this discussion, I'd like to ignore the fact that race is an obsolete construct outside of forensic anthropological usages... I believe it is possible for a member of a minority race to be racist. Racism only requires a personal belief, not specific actions or systemic problems. A minority who believes that "all whites are racist" has met all the requirements to be a racist himself. Racial discrimination, on the other hand, is acting on racist beliefs through some sort of power to discriminate. And yes, this can be a member of a minority in power. The African American owner of a business could commit racial discrimination by refusing to hire a "white" employee because he thinks that all whites are racist.
Racial discrimination doesn't require the power of government to exist, nor is the presence of "systemic problems" a prerequisite. It only requires just enough power to cause harm to another person or group of people.
I do concede that African Americans were by far the worst victims of class-wide racial discrimination in this country. Native Americans and women were also treated quite poorly, but being stolen from your home country followed by literal ownership/slavery followed by Jim Crow laws trumps everything else. However, just because African Americans were the worst victims of racial discrimination doesn't mean they were the only victims, nor does it mean that African Americans are exempt from being accused of racism or unable to commit acts of racial discrimination themselves.
And I also agree that black people, like any other humans, can and do practice racism. However, there is debate and significant disparity in the degree of how much harm it can be towards the group that still holds the majority of financial and political leverage in this country. In simpler terms, how worried should an elephant be about that mouse who hates him?
Of course you will consider off topic. Given that we have NOT agreed on a definition of what racism is, it is very much on topic.
Your attempt to derail the topic to suit your view point will NOT work.
We have TTWO definitions of what racism is. Understand that BOTH definitions have validity and quit acting the dictator on this forum.
At this point we should just agree to disagree because you aren't going to shift those of us who define racism as racism=prejudice+power.
I never said the definition of racism was off topic. I actually think it's the only topic remaining in this discussion. Questions about the other aspects of racism were the only thing I said we should leave for another thread.
My simplistic answer was a response to the statement below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
But let us examine minority racism, using the definition which says merely not liking other people makes one racist.
Examining under that definition gets us straight to the end since under that definition, racism is broadly enough defined that it is easy for anyone to be considered a racist. Personally I believe that definition to be a bit too broad because it lacks the specifier of based only on the other person's race. That is why I would not consider all black on white or white on hispanic, or any other combination to be racism. Attacking someone because they have a wallet full of cash is just an opportunity crime, attacking someone because they are a member of a race you don't like is when you start getting into hate crimes and racism.
It appears what you've done here is define the word in such a way that it renders only whites capable of racism. I congratulate you on your verbal and intellectual acrobatics, and wish you well in your pursuit to mitigate racism toward whites because of minorities' historical "lack of power." If "enforcement" is the difference between "racist" and "not racist" then Westboro Baptist Church is not racist by your definition.
But I digress. This thread has outlived its usefulness. We are trying to discuss if minorities can be racist but cannot even agree on a definition of "racism." And when some wish to gerrymander the definition in such a way to rule out possibilities without considering their merit the discussion is an exercise in futility.
In the U.S. the biggest racist issue has been caused by whites. Currently, in the U.S., the biggest racist issue is caused by whites.
I believe what the defenders of whites in this are trying to say is that since everyone has the potential for racism (because everyone thinks of himself and his culture as better), let's just all of us stop focusing on what whites did (and are doing) in this country. Is that what you're saying? If that's it, then the answer is NO, it must not ever be dropped, in the same way that no, it must never dropped what Nazis did to Jews and gypsies and the disabled.
In the U.S. the biggest racist issue has been caused by whites. Currently, in the U.S., the biggest racist issue is caused by whites.
Denial of a problem is the biggest part of a problem. Do with this thought what you will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
I believe what the defenders of whites in this are trying to say is that since everyone has the potential for racism (because everyone thinks of himself and his culture as better), let's just all of us stop focusing on what whites did (and are doing) in this country. Is that what you're saying?
No, it is not what I am saying. I'm not even certain how you can arrive at that conclusion since I have not even hinted at such a thought. I am saying let's not be in denial of how dynamic this problem really is.
Regarding the bold: it is an invalid assumption. Just because you believe this way does not mean all people do. While I believe all people have the capacity for evil, and with it, racism and discrimination, I also believe we have the capacity to do good and care for our fellow man. Along with this belief is the idea that some people genuinely do not care about race, nor do they consider themselves "better" than anyone. You may. If this is the case, I pity you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
If that's it, then the answer is NO, it must not ever be dropped, in the same way that no, it must never dropped what Nazis did to Jews and gypsies and the disabled.
Likewise we have to stop pretending this is limited to a white issue, even within the context of the U.S.
Last edited by iknowftbll; 07-15-2014 at 09:35 PM..
In the U.S. the biggest racist issue has been caused by whites. Currently, in the U.S., the biggest racist issue is caused by whites.
I believe what the defenders of whites in this are trying to say is that since everyone has the potential for racism (because everyone thinks of himself and his culture as better), let's just all of us stop focusing on what whites did (and are doing) in this country. Is that what you're saying? If that's it, then the answer is NO, it must not ever be dropped, in the same way that no, it must never dropped what Nazis did to Jews and gypsies and the disabled.
I believe you may be misunderstanding what is being argued.
No one here is arguing against the existence of white racism towards others. That has never been part of the discussion at all and even the OP made that 100% clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore
I do concede that African Americans were by far the worst victims of class-wide racial discrimination in this country. Native Americans and women were also treated quite poorly, but being stolen from your home country followed by literal ownership/slavery followed by Jim Crow laws trumps everything else.
The question is not does racism by whites exist nor is it how bad is racism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore
However, just because African Americans were the worst victims of racial discrimination doesn't mean they were the only victims, nor does it mean that African Americans are exempt from being accused of racism or unable to commit acts of racial discrimination themselves.
The question is, "Can minorities be racist?"
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-16-2014 at 05:58 AM..
Reason: See DM
The answer is, sure, everyone thinks their own culture, race, religion is the absolute top of the line. Now what?
Well, if you consider that to meet the definition of racism, we're now in agreement on the original debate topic that this thread was created for(I believe caribny however still disagrees that would be racism).
If you're looking for a solution, I think a thread in the Politics and Other Controversies forum may be better suited for the discussion that follows regarding what to do about it.
Well, if you consider that to meet the definition of racism, we're now in agreement on the original debate topic that this thread was created for(I believe caribny however still disagrees that would be racism).
If you're looking for a solution, I think a thread in the Politics and Other Controversies forum may be better suited for the discussion that follows regarding what to do about it.
So does that mean we're done here? We have arrived at the answer!
Simple answer. Every human being can be racist, or any other form of discrimination.
A conversation along these lines can do no good and only helps to inflame any animosity that exists between groups (check out the last several posts).
Politicians and wannabe power brokers play us all the time on group identity, envy, victimhood, etc.
The sooner we distance ourselves from that and deal with reality the better off we will be.
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We have arrived at the answer!