Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One of the problems with having to be 21 (ridiculous) is the "mystique" it perpetuates for young kids. We drank wine at home as young teens (yes, that's legal), but we drank it as part of the meal. That's what they do in many European countries, BTW.
The voting age was lowered over the "if they can be drafted and fight in a war...." mantra, so the same should apply for the drinking age. The idea that an 18, 19, or 20 year old can't legally have a dang beer if he wants one is inane.
PLEASE read the links I have posted upthread about European teen drinking. The sooner people quit believing the urban legend that European teens have no drinking issues, the better.
Yeah... because having all that has completely stopped drug usage despite it being illegal and all those same things being available
If you want to see what prohibition would look like, just look at drug usage. The results would be exactly the same. Some people making it on their own, gangs getting involved for large scale efforts, violence and crime going up dramatically.
No no, I agree with you completely. Unfortunately I didn't fully express my sarcasm about prohibition and what a bad idea it is in my post. I was trying to say what you said, which is despite all the "tools" of the Industrial Drug War Complex we now have (and it is very different than the 1920s) (including the "private corporation" SWAT Teams in the link I posted), prohibition (of alcohol) would still be a disaster -----> see drug usage vs. Drug War.
I don't want to get too hung up on the legal state of alcohol sales to 18 vs 21. Let's talk about the street, and the reality.
In southern california, most 18 yr olds who desparately want to buy alcohol might drive south to Tijuana, where in the old days, you could buy a bottle of Jose Cuervo or Kalilua for $11. Come to think of it, I can't remember being carded even at 18, so perhaps you could get away with it even younger. I don't recommend that course of action today with the drug war.
In the ghetto, certain ethnic groups who *owned* the liquor stores might be willing to sell alcohol to clearly underaged patrons of some other ethnic group. I remember the placards from the law enforcement organizations promoting EASY (Eliminate Alcohol Sales to Youth) at some of these verysame liquor stores.
As a practical matter, any kids with half a brain and social connections could get alcohol, so I doubt as a practical matter they *care* if the legal age threshold is 21 or 18 or 16.
As a practical matter, any kids with half a brain and social connections could get alcohol, so I doubt as a practical matter they *care* if the legal age threshold is 21 or 18 or 16.
Absolutely. In fact, a pre-teen can easily go in and buy this: Pure Mint Extract
89% alcohol. That's like 178 "proof." It's 1 oz. So that's like a strong 12 ounce beer at 7.4%, or two shots of whisky, or 6.8 ounces of wine at 13%. It was about $3-4 back in the day, so it's not cheap (to get the equivalent of a six-pack of 5% beer would cost like $14).
From time to time I used to direct the hardcore alcoholics (the ones who were going to have a bad night if they didn't get alcohol in their system) to the 24/7 grocery store down the street when I worked in a highway convenience store and it was after I locked up all the cooler doors (midnight). Buy up the mint extract and the peppermint extract. I warned them it was horrible tasting, possibly dangerous, and might indicate the approach of "rock bottom" (whatever that means). Harm reduction along with information.
I don't want to get too hung up on the legal state of alcohol sales to 18 vs 21. Let's talk about the street, and the reality.
In southern california, most 18 yr olds who desparately want to buy alcohol might drive south to Tijuana, where in the old days, you could buy a bottle of Jose Cuervo or Kalilua for $11. Come to think of it, I can't remember being carded even at 18, so perhaps you could get away with it even younger. I don't recommend that course of action today with the drug war.
In the ghetto, certain ethnic groups who *owned* the liquor stores might be willing to sell alcohol to clearly underaged patrons of some other ethnic group. I remember the placards from the law enforcement organizations promoting EASY (Eliminate Alcohol Sales to Youth) at some of these verysame liquor stores.
As a practical matter, any kids with half a brain and social connections could get alcohol, so I doubt as a practical matter they *care* if the legal age threshold is 21 or 18 or 16.
I live in IL. There ain't no driving to the boarder to get alcohol because it is too many hours drive to Canada. Liquor stores don't dare sell to under 21's for fear of getting busted. If you are under 21 and want booze your best bet is social connections with an 21 year old and 16 year olds don't hang with 21 year olds. This mostly limits underage drinking to the 18-20 crowd.
For the under 18 crowd it tends to be raiding your parents liquor or if there is an permissive parent/adult about hanging with getting it from them.
I live in IL. There ain't no driving to the boarder to get alcohol because it is too many hours drive to Canada. Liquor stores don't dare sell to under 21's for fear of getting busted. If you are under 21 and want booze your best bet is social connections with an 21 year old and 16 year olds don't hang with 21 year olds. This mostly limits underage drinking to the 18-20 crowd.
For the under 18 crowd it tends to be raiding your parents liquor or if there is an permissive parent/adult about hanging with getting it from them.
Don't forget theft. In the 2.5 years I worked the convenience store I had someone commit petty alcohol theft about 11 times (and probably many others that did it more sneakily that I didn't see).
We got people driving down from Oklahoma (to North Texas) all the time to buy the "stronger" beer available here. They had some sort of limit like 3.2% ABV. Nowadays Central Market carries stuff like Dogfish Head Palo Santo Marron (12%), Stone Guardian's Slumber (14%), and Bruery Chocolate Rain (18.5%) routinely.
Don't forget theft. In the 2.5 years I worked the convenience store I had someone commit petty alcohol theft about 11 times (and probably many others that did it more sneakily that I didn't see).
We got people driving down from Oklahoma (to North Texas) all the time to buy the "stronger" beer available here. They had some sort of limit like 3.2% ABV. Nowadays Central Market carries stuff like Dogfish Head Palo Santo Marron (12%), Stone Guardian's Slumber (14%), and Bruery Chocolate Rain (18.5%) routinely.
About the only time we had problems with people driving long distances to drink is when IL raised it's age back to 21 a few years before Wisconsin and when it did so and that caused an lot of accidents due to the age .mismatch(People driving to Wisconsin get drunk have crash)
US laws on underage drinking with parental consent are as follows.. Note this info MAY be outdated..
Underage drinking allowed on private property with parental consent - Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming
On private property WITHOUT parental consent (I assume this means you can give your kids friends alcohol) - Louisiana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, Oklahoma, South Carolina
A note on that one.. I know here in SC that there have been several "party" cases lately where an adult has been charged with contributing to the delinquency for providing alcohol.. So.. There's likely an out there for the authorities to make a case.
For religious ceremonies - Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
Medical Purposes - Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
For government work (Police stings for serving a minor, etc) - Michigan, Mississippi, Oregon, South Carolina
Educational purposes (Cooking school, for example) - Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont
Reporting medical need (ie - you're underage and are drunk, and call 911 for another underage person who needs medical attention) - California, Colorado, Delaware, District of Columbia, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington
On alcohol selling premises with parental consent - Connecticut, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Nevada, Ohio, Texas, Wisconsin, Wyoming
In all 50 states, it is illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under 21. I presume the above states that allow underage consumption in public the workaround is that the parents have to buy it for the underage person.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
