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That's a good point, if the mom wasn't giving her breast milk or was giving her something of spurious nutritional value in the name of veganism, that would be abuse or neglect.
Babies and young kids need a lot of fat/cholesterol to keep their brains developing, among other things, and if you can't provide the milk yourself, you shouldn't be on a vegan moral high horse about it, and should be getting the baby what they need regardless of whether or not the label looks like a science experiment. Remember, back in the day, these were the children that failed to thrive, and took sick and passed at a young age. Walk around an old cemetery if you don't believe me.
That is why there were "Wet Nurses" way back when before formula. Rich women paid another woman to breastfeed their babies when they couldn't, or didn't want to.
Pretty much any hard core vegan will say that supplements are probably necessary. And vegan doesn't mean healthy, it's an animal rights ideology. If you want to eat mostly plants and very little animal that's fine, but most people are going to benefit from a little animal, even if it's just some dairy and eggs. That's a fact nobody can argue with, but some people find distasteful for ETHICAL reasons (again, not HEALTH).
There are people who can't be healthy on a vegan diet.
Precisely. Humans did not evolve surving off vegetation. Our digestive system much more resembles that of a dog than a cow. We killed prey, and especially, ate fish. We also learned that cooking food makes it easier to digest and taste better and we did a lot of cooking of our caught game over open fire. We only had access to fruits and vegetables during certain times of the year until we learned how to store them for later use. You can have a moral standing if you want, but scientifically, we were designed to eat meat. Period. You need amino acids to live. You do not need carbohydrates. If necessary the body can produce it's own carbohydrates from protein and fat. It's called "ketosis"and it's the way we mostly ran until agriculture developed.
The disease of our culture today is excessive sugars and starches from refined foods, and this includes unnatural foods like tofu/soy though there are worse things to eat... also most almond milk is just sugar water with a handful of almonds... a lot of the 'health food' is just gussied up versions of normal stuff that's outrageously priced. Fruit juices are no healthier than soda and consuming pasturized juices of any kind thinking they are 'healthy' is in accurate as well.... excess fructose consumption is bad for the liver, and is digested similarly as alcohol is. Eat the whole fruit instead.
I was just reading this article about how a 12 day old baby was taken away from his/hers mother because she wanted them on a "vegan diet". She took the baby to the doctors and the doctor said the child was dehydrated and not growing. The mother refused medical treatment stating her family is "vegan for religious reasons". Because the baby was severely dehydrated the doctor said it was imperative to take the child to the hospital ASAP., and gave her medicine to give her child.
She refused to take the child to the hospital stating she "didn't think the child was dehydrated" and wanted a second opinion from a "natural" doctor. She also stated how she purchases organic formula for the baby to take in place of the medicine the doctor prescribed. When the cops asked if it was safe for a newborn she said "well its organic so it must be".
The article also states other children who have died or been sick from "vegan diets". Including a six week old who weighed only 3 lbs after being given apple juice and soy formula. Or a 9 month old with asthma who was denied medications and was breastfed instead.
I'm wondering what are your thoughts?
Vegan as a whole? No. This level of vegan? Yes.
Just like any other religious extreme, be it forcing your child to deny evolution or to hate homosexuals, it's a form of child abuse. Any thing this authoritarian in nature is morally reprehensible.
Babies need breastmilk, period. If not, formula is a good substitute. Apple juice is not recommended for such young infants. This mother took it to the extreme.
Back to the topic, vegan parenting without adequate supplements is not good. That said, the philosophy of having everyone adhering to meat eating is ridiculous. There are several cultures (including mine) where people are doing just fine on a vegetarian diet.
The majority of people who raise their children as vegan for religious reasons raised them just fine. No, it is not child abuse because one family has issues. My parents are vegetarian and raised me that way. We were and still are healthy as are the many families we know who raised their children vegetarian or vegan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly
LOLZ to this thread and all of the projecting.
My parents are vegetarian, so am i, so are my kids and their cousins. None of us have ever suffered cognitively or athletically for not eating a hamburger.
Most americans don't understand how to go about having a diet that is healthy.
Crazy people are crazy people. It doesn't really matter what their diet is. I'm sure 99% of the infant deaths due to poor diet in this country were at the hands of parents who eat meat and I don't hear anyone talking about how irresponsible meat-eating parents are.
If one really wanted to be self-righteous one could say that formula feeding is child abuse or that starting a kid on solid foods before they can sit up on their own is child abuse. Or introducing kids to highly allergenic foods (cows milk, wheat, peanut butter, strawberries, etc) before a certain age is child abuse.
I wouldn't say it's child abuse but I certainly wouldn't advise it. I believe in everyone having the option to do as they please. I would want my child to make that choice instead of making that choice for them.
Not all vegans are crazy. One of my friends is a vegan, but she feeds her kids a little bit of everything. She breastfed her children, but was ready to switch to regular formula if needed.
Those poor exploited animals! Including the poor exploited mother! The horror!
It is odd that most of the vegans I know are great people. But the group as a whole has to be one of the most annoying subsets of human beings on the planet. I lump them in with people who are in religious cults. Because veganism is essentially a religious cult.
Raising a child being vegan is not the abusing aspect. Being an extremist is abusive. If its done right and you maintain proper nutrition verifiable by tests all can be great. Expensive, yes, abusive, no. Anytime you create a victim through religious beliefs you are officially an extremist.
Taking your child, infant or teenager, to eat at Mcdonalds is abusive but thats another story...
Raising a child being vegan is not the abusing aspect. Being an extremist is abusive. If its done right and you maintain proper nutrition verifiable by tests all can be great. Expensive, yes, abusive, no. Anytime you create a victim through religious beliefs you are officially an extremist.
Taking your child, infant or teenager, to eat at Mcdonalds is abusive but thats another story...
This. Excellent post (especially the last sentence).
I take it they don't consider breast milk vegan?
My daughter was vegan (I say was because while breastfeeding my grandson, she was advised by the doctor to start eating eggs). His pediatrician also advised her not to give him any solid food until six months old. By 5 months, he wasn't gaining adequately, was constantly starving, and we were all very worried. The problem was her breast milk - it didn't have enough of what he needed. The doctor advised supplementing withformula, but my daughter balked at this after reading the ingredients. They finally compromised - supplementing the bf with goat's milk in moderation and start the solids as soon as he turned six months. Not exactly vegan, I know, but it really helped. When it was time to introduce solids, first choice was avocado (which, the doctor says, has as much good fat for infants as breast milk).
DD is still a real health food nazi and only feeds him organic foods, although a wide variety of vegetables, fruits, and legumes which she prepares for him herself. He's never had anything non-organic, processed, or out of a jar. She's going to keep him vegetarian as long as possible (not necessarily vegan), but it will eventually be his choice what he wants to eat. Needless to say, he's probably not going to see the inside of a McDonalds until he can drive.
She is not vegetarian for religious reasons - she owns a health food business and practices what she preaches.
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