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In the "RACISTEST" Italy they earn up to 100 % (sometimes even more since they do find a job) than Italians, immigrants who are NOT here since generations like African-Americans!
This are SALARIES not welfare, don't ignore facts.
Because IT IS a society made up of immigrants!
Don't you see the difference?
Europe is the double in terms of population of the U and less than half in terms of size, how can we receive other hordes of immigrants?
Europe (which is not a country by the way and differs much more than you think) is seen that way by YOU.
You also fail to mention how those 11 million were largely low skilled workers whose best future will be to be a cashier at McDonalds and hope to learn the language.
Guess any similarity with hordes of low skilled immigrants invading Europe?
Did it escape to you that Europe as close to Africa as the US are to Mexico?
How many companies have Mexican CEO?
Let's see that, African Americans are a completely integrated reality within the US, it would be like comparing.
Italian-Albanians are like them and they are here since 1500-1700.
I have seen several Black men in Paris in black suits who worked for corporations.
And?
Europe has terrible issues too, but label a whole continent who's helping and rescuing million people is completely senseless and arrogant.
In the US there have been more ethnic riots too and race is much more of an issue than in Europe.
Europe is less different racially (obviously) but that doesn't change the fact that Europe isn't ALL racist and it's pointless to generalise over points like bananas thrown at black players or insults when we are dealing with 600 million people.
Europe is flooded with poorly qualified workers also because Europe is closer to Africa, Europe rarely deports and accept everybody as a refugee (even people from countries at peace).
Plus, as I previously pointed out, Europe is NOT built by immigrants, we are NOT the US.
How many people can reach the US through the Ocean?
How many illegals come from another country rather than Mexico?
Sure, and then largely kept when the Britons had abolished slavery and were fighting all over the world to heal that plague (a credit they rarely get).
Yet there have been less ethnic riots or shooting than in the US, curious.
Yes, Europeans are getting sick of uncontrolled immigration of poorly qualified and barely literate immigrants who dry our welfare system up, lower salaries and heighten unemployment.
It has little to do with skin's colour and more with culture and economical reasons.
The problem isn't that Europe is more or less racist than the US, the problem is that you paint Europe like a ****hole full of KKK and nazis, when it's not.
Sure, we hear about walls built at the borders with Mexico, about deportations of illegals and families, about issues concerning healthcare and public welfare, about jails filled with non-whites people.
Sure, at the same time in Italy healthcare is given to everybody with MY taxes, immigrants are received and get food, water and clothes, they are rescued from the sea (by the way, US intervention in Libya along with French one is largely responsible for the current situation, add to this giving weapons to Syrian rebels).
Italy, a country plagued by a crysis (started in the US, btw), corruption, mafia and where people get into poverty day by day, has received more than 5,5 million people since 2000, a country of 301,000 km sq (compared to 9 million of the US) and 60 million people (compared to 318 million of the US) and with a density of 201,7 people per km sq (compared to 34,2 of US).
Do you know how much does my region spend on average per immigrant( 50,000 people out of 500,0000)? 1,300 €.
How racist is it?
Face it the white supremacist types seem to be muvh bolder in showing their faces in Europe than they are in the USA, and in additional people actually VOTE for them. The KKK will not be allowed to be in elections in the USA. Golden Dawn is a proud member of the Greek assembly. UKIP and other similar parties in Europe enjoy similar support.
You all don't have immigrants. You have REFUGEES. I suspect that most of your refugees would rather be in other parts of the EU, but are contained in Italy because of EU rules.
Italy doesn't have the conditions that suggest that it will be a destination for African professionals. Indeed you treat one of your ministers like a primate, so why will educated Africans go there. We ALL heard about that.
My focus was in BLACK IMMIGRANTS. I very much doubt that all of those African immigrants that you get are earning the same as Italians, because they certainly aren't destined for professionals. You cleverly disguise other European immigrants when the point is about African and Muslim immigrants whose origins are from OUTSIDE of Europe.
The USA sees itself as a land of immigrants, which is PRECISELY my point. As a result they don't try to socially engineer immigrants to conform to being "American". And indeed there is NO definition of what American culture that will satisfy most people. American culture is what ever the individual being questioned defines it to be and the 310 million Americans will have 310 million ways of defining what being American is.
Not so Europe. In some countries they reluctantly "tolerate" non white immigrants. In others, like Italy, they haven't even reached that point. What Europeans have in common though is the deep desire to remold immigrants to become exactly like what the natives conceive of their national culture as being. Lacking a tradition of embracing immigrants, there is less of a desire to embrace, or ignore difference.
There are loads of ethnic confrontations in France, so I don't know why you pick the USA. There aren't in Italy, because the small and very weak non white immigrant population will be terrified of the back lash.
There is a reason why the USA is the NUMBER ONE destination for immigrant professionals!
Yet there is almost less discrimination in terms of wage, no shooting, no aggression and no laws against them.
Curious.
Please point out laws that are against non whites in the USA in 2014.
Furnish evidence that Italy attracts large numbers of African professionals who are being integrated into Italian economic life. We know about how MAINSTREAM Italian politicians lambasted your African minister as a primate That behavior in the USA is limited to clowns like Rush Limbaugh, and even mainstream conservative media will stay away from it, as they will become too easily victimized by their bigotry.
If the Africans you get are only fit to labor on construction sites and become street vendors how equal can you claim Italy more equitable in its treatment of blacks than is the USA in 2014.
You have flat run out of arguments to defend Italy.
BTW there are currently 10 Hispanics, 9 Asians and 6 black CEOs in the Fortune 500. Care to furnish similar stats for the 500 largest companies in Italy?
Face it the white supremacist types seem to be muvh bolder in showing their faces in Europe than they are in the USA, and in additional people actually VOTE for them. The KKK will not be allowed to be in elections in the USA. Golden Dawn is a proud member of the Greek assembly. UKIP and other similar parties in Europe enjoy similar support.
Golden Dawn peaked to 7 % (or 21 seats out of 300), at the same time you obviously omitted that SYRIZA, a left-wing party who promoted welfare and integration, peaked to 26 % (or 71 seats out of 300).
At the same time, in Italy there is Lega Nord (the party from which came all the offenses to Kyenge and which you keep to labelling as "whole Italy") obtained 4,1 %, Forza Nuova (a neo fascist party) reached 0,26% , Casapound (an explicitly fascist party) reached 0,13 %.
So, where do you see all this institutional racism in Italy?
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Italy doesn't have the conditions that suggest that it will be a destination for African professionals. Indeed you treat one of your ministers like a primate, so why will educated Africans go there. We ALL heard about that.
We ALL heard about those African-American guys shot by police, about those ethnic riots (much more common than in France btw) and so on.
I already explained who was guilty of those insults towards that minister (Lega Nord members) but apparently you, as usual, ignored all points.
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My focus was in BLACK IMMIGRANTS. I very much doubt that all of those African immigrants that you get are earning the same as Italians, because they certainly aren't destined for professionals. You cleverly disguise other European immigrants when the point is about African and Muslim immigrants whose origins are from OUTSIDE of Europe.
The first nationality of (legal) immigrants is Romania with 934,000 people (including many gypsies with Romanian nationality, allegedly 100,000), then it comes to Moroccans with 524,000 people, Albanians ( 502,000), Chinese (320,000), Ukrainians (233,000), Filipinos (165,000),Indians (160,000), Moldova (150,000),Egyptians ( 135,000), Bangladesh (127,000),Tunisians (122,000),Peruvians (110,000),Serbians (109,000), Pakistanis (106,000),Sri Lanka (104,000), Senegalese (97,000),Ecuador (91,000), Macedonians (84,000) and Nigerians (72,000).
So it's:
European origins: 2,012,000
Non-Europeans: 2,133,000
And this is based solely on race/ethnicity as you clearly wanted to point out.
So, where is your point?
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The USA sees itself as a land of immigrants, which is PRECISELY my point. As a result they don't try to socially engineer immigrants to conform to being "American". And indeed there is NO definition of what American culture that will satisfy most people. American culture is what ever the individual being questioned defines it to be and the 310 million Americans will have 310 million ways of defining what being American is.
When did I say the contrary?
Europe isn't a continent of immigrants and we don't want to be.
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Not so Europe. In some countries they reluctantly "tolerate" non white immigrants. In others, like Italy, they haven't even reached that point. What Europeans have in common though is the deep desire to remold immigrants to become exactly like what the natives conceive of their national culture as being. Lacking a tradition of embracing immigrants, there is less of a desire to embrace, or ignore difference.
Again, you just pointed out some opinions without any source or data.
Integration means for most people that an immigrant must speak the national language, abide to laws and don't cause troubles.
Where's racism here?
People don't care whether you worship Allah or Jesus or speak Arabic or Hindi at home as soon as you correspond to those three points.
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There are loads of ethnic confrontations in France, so I don't know why you pick the USA. There aren't in Italy, because the small and very weak non white immigrant population will be terrified of the back lash.
There are loads of ethnic confrontation in the US too and yes, immigration is smaller in Italy, yet we have 5,000,000 immigrants (at January 2014,so there are other 8 months to count), half of whom is outside Europe as origins (btw, be this clear,it's YOU who keep pointing the accent over the race of immigrants) and with 800,000 illegals.
So, it's roughly 10 % of Italian population (compared to 14 % of the US).
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There is a reason why the USA is the NUMBER ONE destination for immigrant professionals!
Perhaps the fact that there are much stricter laws against illegals? That there's an ocean between you and most of the world and a wall between you and Mexico? that the US are a country of immigrants? That the US are also much bigger and less densely populated than Europe?
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Originally Posted by caribny
Please point out laws that are against non whites in the USA in 2014.
The fact perhaps that despite 50 years of de-segregation in the US there's still a considerable slice of inmates who is Black? The ghettoization in many American cities?
Now, please can you point out what ethnic laws there are against "non-whites" in Europe?
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Furnish evidence that Italy attracts large numbers of African professionals who are being integrated into Italian economic life. We know about how MAINSTREAM Italian politicians lambasted your African minister as a primate That behavior in the USA is limited to clowns like Rush Limbaugh, and even mainstream conservative media will stay away from it, as they will become too easily victimized by their bigotry.
Is a party with 4,21 % of votes "mainstream"?
Again and again, you simply don't care to bring any source or data, you keep on repeating the same claims which I disproved countless times.
At the same time, you deliberately ignore how Italy is close to Africa, how Italy has no wall "protecting" it from immigrants, has no Ocean "defending" it, has much laxer deportation rules and has no customs at borders.
Golden Dawn peaked to 7 % (or 21 seats out of 300), at the same time you obviously omitted that SYRIZA, a left-wing party who promoted welfare and integration, peaked to 26 % (or 71 seats out of 300).
At the same time, in Italy there is Lega Nord (the party from which came all the offenses to Kyenge and which you keep to labelling as "whole Italy") obtained 4,1 %, Forza Nuova (a neo fascist party) reached 0,26% , Casapound (an explicitly fascist party) reached 0,13 %.
So, where do you see all this institutional racism in Italy?
We ALL heard about those African-American guys shot by police, about those ethnic riots (much more common than in France btw) and so on.
I already explained who was guilty of those insults towards that minister (Lega Nord members) but apparently you, as usual, ignored all points.
The first nationality of (legal) immigrants is Romania with 934,000 people (including many gypsies with Romanian nationality, allegedly 100,000), then it comes to Moroccans with 524,000 people, Albanians ( 502,000), Chinese (320,000), Ukrainians (233,000), Filipinos (165,000),Indians (160,000), Moldova (150,000),Egyptians ( 135,000), Bangladesh (127,000),Tunisians (122,000),Peruvians (110,000),Serbians (109,000), Pakistanis (106,000),Sri Lanka (104,000), Senegalese (97,000),Ecuador (91,000), Macedonians (84,000) and Nigerians (72,000).
So it's:
European origins: 2,012,000
Non-Europeans: 2,133,000
And this is based solely on race/ethnicity as you clearly wanted to point out.
So, where is your point?
When did I say the contrary?
Europe isn't a continent of immigrants and we don't want to be.
Again, you just pointed out some opinions without any source or data.
Integration means for most people that an immigrant must speak the national language, abide to laws and don't cause troubles.
Where's racism here?
People don't care whether you worship Allah or Jesus or speak Arabic or Hindi at home as soon as you correspond to those three points.
There are loads of ethnic confrontation in the US too and yes, immigration is smaller in Italy, yet we have 5,000,000 immigrants (at January 2014,so there are other 8 months to count), half of whom is outside Europe as origins (btw, be this clear,it's YOU who keep pointing the accent over the race of immigrants) and with 800,000 illegals.
So, it's roughly 10 % of Italian population (compared to 14 % of the US).
Perhaps the fact that there are much stricter laws against illegals? That there's an ocean between you and most of the world and a wall between you and Mexico? that the US are a country of immigrants? That the US are also much bigger and less densely populated than Europe?
The fact perhaps that despite 50 years of de-segregation in the US there's still a considerable slice of inmates who is Black? The ghettoization in many American cities?
Now, please can you point out what ethnic laws there are against "non-whites" in Europe?
Is a party with 4,21 % of votes "mainstream"?
Again and again, you simply don't care to bring any source or data, you keep on repeating the same claims which I disproved countless times.
At the same time, you deliberately ignore how Italy is close to Africa, how Italy has no wall "protecting" it from immigrants, has no Ocean "defending" it, has much laxer deportation rules and has no customs at borders.
Still waiting for you to post proof that most Africans in Italy aren't street sweepers, vendors, construction laborers, or dish washers. You cite how many are from Africa, but you don't show what they make.
Where are the ethnic riots in the USA. Ferguson, but then many of the protesters were white, and the police chief who took over managing the streets was a BLACK man.
The USA is a violent country. Its a country which treats its poor badly. Cops and bandits shoot and kill each other and often innocent people are also killed. 90% of the blacks are killed by other blacks, and over 80% of the whites are killed by other whites.
What white Americans in mainstream positions don't do is call a black leader a baboon. Nor are black leaders forced to put up with the nasty bigotry that this woman, and one of your major football players had to.
She has resigned now and didn't last a year. Now why will an African professional thinking of migrating go to Italy when seeing how an African is being treated, when the son of an African immigrant is President of the USA. The most visible black leader in Italy and this is how she is treated!
And imagine an Italian claiming that he doesn't want Italy to be a land of immigrants when there are probably more people of Italian ancestry OUTSIDE of Italy than inside. So Italians can go where they wish, but Italy can deny similar opportunities to others.
Compare the socio economic status of Roma in Europe with African Americans in the USA. Can you indicate people who have visible and open Roma ancestry who have careers equivalent to people like Oprah Winfrey, Barack Obama and the blacks who lead or have led major entities like Merrill Lynch, American Express, Microsoft, McDonalds, Darden, National Restaurants Assoc, Time Warner.
The USA has 11 MILLION illegal aliens. So what part of not getting illegal immigration does it not get? But it also attracts the best and brightest from Africa while Italy attracts street sweepers.
The USA has 11 MILLION illegal aliens. So what part of not getting illegal immigration does it not get? But it also attracts the best and brightest from Africa while Italy attracts street sweepers.
I disagree with this statement, kinda-sorta.
Italy also attracts the best and brightest. But then they waste all that talent and make their immigrants become street sweepers. At least in America, a go-getter can carve out a life that is better than being a street sweeper. They will still deal with racist crapola. But at least they have the opportunity to prosper.
There is racism in both countries. But the racism is different.
America has proven that a community organizer, a peanut farmer, a fraternity playboy, a college professor and a soldier can lead this country. (Although we should probably put a moratorium on playboys.) Considering our recent choices for president and secretary of state, we have proven that we don't care about skin color like other countries care about skin color. (And good for us, because skin color is as important as eye color.)
And even though we have made such strides, "driving while black" is still a reality in America. We ignore this reality at our own peril. I can be as "post-racial" as I want. Bigotry has a way of interjecting itself onto an unwilling public.
Italy Is Not Just Racist, It's Anti-Black Okayafrica.
Still waiting for you to post proof that most Africans in Italy aren't street sweepers, vendors, construction laborers, or dish washers. You cite how many are from Africa, but you don't show what they make.
I don't understand why you keep on focusing either on "Africans" (is an Algerian an African in your eyes?) or on "non-whites" like if 320,000 Chinese, 934,000 Romanins and 500,000 Albanians (and many other minor nationalities) don't count.
Nope, most immigrants are low-skilled labourers and I never denied this (obviously there are many immigrants with good qualifications but overall, I'd say, 85%, they are low-skilled labourers.
In fact, Italy doesn't attract immigrants for these reasons:
1) Crysis which is destroying jobs
2) Corruption and mismanagement in Italy
3) Low attractiveness of Italian job market.
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Where are the ethnic riots in the USA. Ferguson, but then many of the protesters were white, and the police chief who took over managing the streets was a BLACK man.
"Ethnic riots" on wikipedia.
[quote]What white Americans in mainstream positions don't do is call a black leader a baboon. Nor are black leaders forced to put up with the nasty bigotry that this woman, and one of your major football players had to.
She has resigned now and didn't last a year. Now why will an African professional thinking of migrating go to Italy when seeing how an African is being treated, when the son of an African immigrant is President of the USA. The most visible black leader in Italy and this is how she is treated!
Again you fail.
She didn't resign, the government changed executive and her ministry for Integration was even suppressed since she didn't obtain any visible result beside promoting absurd ideas.
And Italy is so racist that she is now a European Parliamentary.
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And imagine an Italian claiming that he doesn't want Italy to be a land of immigrants when there are probably more people of Italian ancestry OUTSIDE of Italy than inside. So Italians can go where they wish, but Italy can deny similar opportunities to others.
lol
1) Italians emigrated emigrated during XIX century and XX century and they were often considered no more than garbage by their American/Australian counterparts.
2) Immigration was NEEDED at that time since the US was a booming economy with an urgent need of manpower.
3) There weren't welfare or social laws at that time
4) At that time, Italians were also lynched
Plus, I don't reject immigration, I reject uncontrolled immigration which leads only to economical weakness, rise of unemployment and lowering of wages.
Btw, those are the same position of 99% of Westerners.
Quote:
Compare the socio economic status of Roma in Europe with African Americans in the USA. Can you indicate people who have visible and open Roma ancestry who have careers equivalent to people like Oprah Winfrey, Barack Obama and the blacks who lead or have led major entities like Merrill Lynch, American Express, Microsoft, McDonalds, Darden, National Restaurants Assoc, Time Warner.
Roma people are completely different from Black Americans try to compare the status of Mexican American with them.
Plus, it's pointless to do this comparison: immigration in Italy started in 90's with hundreds of thousands of Albanians coming here.
Guess what? Now Albanians are almost completely integrated, they start opening enterprises and producing.
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The USA has 11 MILLION illegal aliens. So what part of not getting illegal immigration does it not get? But it also attracts the best and brightest from Africa while Italy attracts street sweepers.
This is ridiculous. Ill put it this way....you're not going to see a black President in any other Nation on the planet outside of Africa, except in the US. Youre also not going to see a white (whatever that means) President in China, Japan, Korea, Brazil, Congo, etc.
Let's face it! It shouldn't matter who holds the flag for most vile mindset throughout a Nation.
Racism shouldn't be tolerated on any level, period. Our ancestors implemented heinous laws, acts, and evoked a terrible state of mind toward those donning skin of a darker tone.
I wholeheartedly believed if any one category of people possess validity toward a Racist heart, it should easily erect from the community of African Americans.
Pathetic, we much rather converse of the ignorance oppose to remedy.
Let's face it! It shouldn't matter who holds the flag for most vile mindset throughout a Nation.
Racism shouldn't be tolerated on any level, period. Our ancestors implemented heinous laws, acts, and evoked a terrible state of mind toward those donning skin of a darker tone.
I wholeheartedly believed if any one category of people possess validity toward a Racist heart, it should easily erect from the community of African Americans.
Pathetic, we much rather converse of the ignorance oppose to remedy.
RACISM should be a chargeable/criminal offense!
It already is a criminal offense SPECFRCE....if you commit a crime with race as the motive then that is called a hate crime. Simply having a racist mindset isn't illegal because you cant punish people for thinking a certain way. That leads down an extremely dangerous path by giving the government precedence for controlling peoples thoughts and opinions. You don't want to open that door.
It already is a criminal offense SPECFRCE....if you commit a crime with race as the motive then that is called a hate crime. Simply having a racist mindset isn't illegal because you cant punish people for thinking a certain way. That leads down an extremely dangerous path by giving the government precedence for controlling peoples thoughts and opinions. You don't want to open that door.
Indeed,
However how many offenses go unseen or corrected? Could it only be a hate crime if consisting physical harm or overly despicable? I'm certain you know of or witness inequalities to those of a darker pigmentation.
It is wrong and tragic.
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