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They WILL eventually assimilate. And it will continue to be important to know Spanish, particularly along our southern border, for many years to come.
Why? I'm a realist. They're here. We're not going to round them all up and deport them, en masse. Our constitution says that anyone who was born in America is an American. Our constitution does NOT require them to speak any particular language. So we have several million people who are on the first rung of the assimilation ladder. We're a basically decent country -- we're not going to split up families and deport everyone who can't prove they were born here or entered legally. That isn't us. (And I hope it never is.)
If people want to argue whether to close the gates, lock them and throw away the key -- that's a different debate. But where I live, knowing Spanish as well as English makes a person a more desirable hire. Full stop.
Yeah, but the two points are directly contradictory. They can't both be true, Spanish can't be an essential skill and a not essential one at the same time.
So you agree "Spanish will be an essential (i.e. general) job market skill for Americans"? Spanish will be a more important skill in 10 to 20 years?
So you agree "Spanish is/will an essential (i.e. general) job market skill for Americans"?
In my area, yes. In New Hampshire, no. And in Maine, a little French couldn't hurt, particularly along the northern border. And at the end of the day, why does it matter?
Doesn't matter to me. I need to know a little Spanish, so I learned a little Spanish. Big deal. Most Americans know their numbers from Sesame Street anyway. Learn a few phrases and build on it. It's not like it's a bad skill to have. And it helps me out when I travel.
In my area, yes. In New Hampshire, no. And in Maine, a little French couldn't hurt, particularly along the northern border. And at the end of the day, why does it matter?
Doesn't matter to me. I need to know a little Spanish, so I learned a little Spanish. Big deal. Most Americans know their numbers from Sesame Street anyway. Learn a few phrases and build on it. It's not like it's a bad skill to have. And it helps me out when I travel.
Yeah, but obviously this is a little bit different than just picking up a few words. Learning another language is very difficult. Hence the reason, many immigrants who have lived in the US for many years still can't speak English, despite total immersion.
It can create issues in place when you have people who don't speak English showing up at schools, hospitals, and the court system. The local tax payers have to spend money translating documents, providing bilingual services, etc. This obviously generates some friction.
It is also another thing in areas where you could get by with just knowing English for years and know all the sudden you see job openings requiring knowledge of Spanish (not aimed at tourists and international sales)?
Unlike say tech skills which make us more efficient, speaking multiple languages makes us less efficient as a society. (Yes, it is nice to have specialists who speak other languages for international stuff, but duplicating stuff in multiple language for domestic use is a huge pain.)
Yeah, bilingual people are on average smarter. But, it is unclear which was the causality runs. Smarter people are more likely to be interested/better at learning other languages. Learning in general makes you smarter/has positive cognitive benefits.
However, training nurses, teachers, sales reps to speak Spanish is time that could be spent developing the core technical/professional skills that ultimately make society more innovative.
Yeah, but the two points are directly contradictory. They can't both be true, Spanish can't be an essential skill and a not essential one at the same time.
So you agree "Spanish will be an essential (i.e. general) job market skill for Americans"? Spanish will be a more important skill in 10 to 20 years?
Agreed, and deporting illegal aliens as we should be according to our laws is not separating families. The whole family can leave and go back to their homelands together. Illegal aliens make a choice to violate our immigration laws and shouldn't get a pass because of their family here. American lawbreakers don't get a pass because of their families. They have to pay the consequences for their lawbreaking also.
Again, thank you for seeing the hypocricies in here. It's like talking out of both sides of the mouth. Why should Americans learn Spanish to accomodate new immigrants? Why not have to learn a dozen other foreign languages also then? Spanish speaker aren't the only immigrants coming here. It is up to immigrants to learn the language of his country not the other way around.
If you want to live here you need to learn the native language not the other way around. It already makes me sick that spanish is all over packaging in the USA. And when I call customer service press 1 for english? what the hell is that? Should be english and an option to press 1 for spanish.
I live about 50 miles from the border with Mexico. Spanish fluency is not a requirement for most jobs here. It's helpful, especially if you want to make money in stuff like sales. But the only jobs I've ever seen that require it are those in social services or medical environments, for example, where contact with a low-income clientele is paramount.
Study after study shows that Spanish-speakers who move to the U.S. learn English at exactly the same speed ALL recent immigrants learn it. The non-English-speaking immigrant learns a smattering, their children become fluently bi-lingual, and their grandchildren never learn the family's native tongue. It's true of not only of Hispanics, but also of Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Ugandans, Chinese, Hmong, people from the former Yugoslavia and every other kind of immigrant we've had streams of in recent years.
Studies also show that people who emigrated here in the 19th and early 20th century — floods of people from Germany, Italy, Poland, Russia, etc. — took much longer to learn English than today's immigrants do. Why? No television. American television is an even greater equalizer for all who live here than public schooling.
Spanish-speaking immigrant groups, aside from the Mexicans, have really only been a somewhat recent addition to the immigrant pool. Before them, Germans, Irish and Italians were the majority of immigrants, and well the Irish already spoke English, but the Germans and Italians spoke a foreign language, and over time, American born generations will lose their ancestral language and primarily speak English.
The one difference is that Latin Americans are still immigrating in large numbers, where as the Italians and Germans have had their immigration waves in the past, they don't immigrate to America as they once used to, as living conditions in their countries have dramatically improved since the 19th and early 20th century.
The Latin American immigration waves are still strong, but that might change if conditions in their home countries get better. Cubans did not come in droves to Miami prior to the revolution. If living conditions and politics change in Latin America (will take a long time) then Latino immigration will certainly slow down. Actually, I think that long term immigration patterns will shift away from Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians etc. towards people from Asia. People from China, Korea, Thailand, The Phillipines, India, Pakistan, the Middle East. As well as people from Africa. The sort of immigration patterns that have been occuring in Europe and Canada in the past decades might start to really show up here alongside the Latino immigration patterns.
I live about 50 miles from the border with Mexico. Spanish fluency is not a requirement for most jobs here. It's helpful, especially if you want to make money in stuff like sales. But the only jobs I've ever seen that require it are those in social services or medical environments, for example, where contact with a low-income clientele is paramount.
Study after study shows that Spanish-speakers who move to the U.S. learn English at exactly the same speed ALL recent immigrants learn it. The non-English-speaking immigrant learns a smattering, their children become fluently bi-lingual, and their grandchildren never learn the family's native tongue. It's true of not only of Hispanics, but also of Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Ugandans, Chinese, Hmong, people from the former Yugoslavia and every other kind of immigrant we've had streams of in recent years.
Studies also show that people who emigrated here in the 19th and early 20th century — floods of people from Germany, Italy, Poland, Russia, etc. — took much longer to learn English than today's immigrants do. Why? No television. American television is an even greater equalizer for all who live here than public schooling.
The problem is that many Spanish speakers even though they know English want to be pandered to in Spanish and then add millions of illegal aliens to the mix and that is why jobs are requiring knowledge of both languages to be hired. These are a couple of the reasons I object to learning Spanish. Our national de facto language is English not Spanish. We don't pander to immigrants who speak a different foreign language for the most part. Of course businesses will do anything for a buck including discriminating against native English speakers in their hiring practices.
Very true, business can hire based on the skills they need/want.
But would you acknowledge that having everyone speak one language is better for social cohesion and more efficient?
Yeah, linguistically balkanized societies exists, but multiple domestic languages is generally a source of division and complexity, not a social benefit.
It is hard to look to examples like Canada and Belgium and argue that their linguistic divisions are a source of national strength.
Ehh, no.
Actually, I think that long term immigration patterns will shift away from Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians etc. towards people from Asia. .
It already has. There is now net migration BACK to Mexico, while immigration from Asia continues.
Here is the issue with some people (they know who they are). The border regions of the USA have always had strong Hispanic influences because these regions were once part of Mexico. Even the ANGLO culture of these regions has included many of these influences. What is more "American" than the rodeo? Hispanic influence.
What is interesting is that much of angst of Spanish is actually in states with relatively small Hispanic populations, so we can only question what the true motives really are.
Spanish is not and will NEVER be essential for most people. In certain regions there will exist impoverished populations of RECENT immigrants who will require help in Spanish in health care, the schools and in the court system as some one suggested.
One need only look at the Puerto Rican population in NYC. Once at the vanguard of making demands on the social service institutions to have Spanish language competencies, the majority of Puerto Ricans are now English dominant. Large numbers either do not speak Spanish, or speak it poorly. Ironically in PR itself similar adjustments must be made to accommodate people like these if they move to that island to live.
As to Miami. Well 50% of US goods and services which are exported to Latin America reportedly go through that city, which has only a minimal industrial base. Obvious this is because the fact that Spanish is used in the highest of places makes wealthy Latin Americas more comfortable. The way I see it lots of people who do not speak ONE word of Spanish benefit.
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