Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obviously there are powerful female CEOs and ruthless leaders, but for the other 99% of women has feminism been a hindrance to happiness?
I'm seeing a number of single-childless-career-minded baby boomer women really terrified in the face of their waning years. They may have one elderly parent left, they may have a niece or nephew that pays attention to them every couple of years and that is about it. The corporation they were dedicated to no longer wants them, they have no family and men ignore them ... so they are kind of stuck in a very lonely purgatory. Meanwhile their peers are celebrating their grandchildren.
It was still a good movement, because they at least have a choice now. But the "FemiNazis" ARE NOT feminists. They still want to pretend they are. It's sad how people like that stain the name of something that has improved the lives of so many. Moderator cut: off topic I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT FEMINISTS ARE ACTUALLY RATIONAL PEOPLE, AND THAT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE RADICALS THAT MAKE FEMINISM LOOK BAD. THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GROUPS, WITH DIFFERENT MINDSETS.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-18-2015 at 05:17 AM..
Reason: Removed moderator note
I agree that feminism pitted women against women. It caused a great divide among women that is unacceptable and which CANNOT be blamed on men. Examples: young women who exclude other young women from their social cliques because they don't have long shiny smooth straight hair, dress trendy and fit a Hollywood-inspired image; working mothers who sneer at SAHM's; arrogant women who flaunt their T&A's under the excuse of empowerment (result--men won't even look at a modest woman anymore); women who backstab each other in their quest to get a man; women who find a man and wipe their girlfriends off their slate in order to be available 24/7 for the man; women who try to steal other women's spouses or significant others; women who eat their young in the working world by psychologically abusing other women by walking up to them in low cut tops and acting flirtatious; married women who refuse to be friendly to single women at social events; the list goes on.
As long as women treat other women so nastily, women will never have any true equality in this world. Women are doing more evil to other women than any man is doing.
I don't see how anyone could claim it a failure....before feminism took root, women were property of men, we couldn't own property if your husband wanted rid of you in the 50's, he could get you commited to an insane asylum with ridiculously little proof you needed to be, ....even in the 60's and 70's most banks wouldn't issue credit to a woman without her husband, and a mortgage without a husband was almost impossible. Employers were allowed to fire women who got married, so they didn't have to worry about them having babies. You would have been forced out as soon as you started showing anyway.
When my mom was forced to go to work after my dad got sick in the mid-60's, her choices were secretary, housekeeper and the like...all low paying jobs. She would,ve been laughed out of any place that was male blue collar.
To say feminism was a failure because all women aren't happy is like saying Civil Rights were a failure because many blacks live in poverty, so they were better off getting hung for no reason and being banned from using public restrooms. Are we really asking if women were better off when we were discriminated against?
I am single, childless and 52, I never had any power career, I just never met the right guy at the right time, had nothing to do with trying to have it all,etc. But I am not scared in the slightest, as I have a close family and friends...and a great well paying job, thanks to women who came before me and opened the doors that allowed me to go to college and get a great job.
Thank you. I totally agree. Sometimes I think people forget what life was like for women pre-feminism. We were treated like children, considered not bright enough to vote or own businesses or carry mortgages. Many women had no choice but to stay in abusive situations if they wanted to feed their kids. Women who chose to have sex outside marriage and were caught were ostracized. And I'm not even mentioning the expectations heaped on men, who had to be the "opposite" of us to be considered men.
Changing those things cannot be considered a failure in my book.
The world is messy and will always be, so of course there are post-movement complications. There always are! But should we really go back to what we had before? I would think most people would say not just no, but hell no.
Obviously there are powerful female CEOs and ruthless leaders, but for the other 99% of women has feminism been a hindrance to happiness?
I'm seeing a number of single-childless-career-minded baby boomer women really terrified in the face of their waning years. They may have one elderly parent left, they may have a niece or nephew that pays attention to them every couple of years and that is about it. The corporation they were dedicated to no longer wants them, they have no family and men ignore them ... so they are kind of stuck in a very lonely purgatory. Meanwhile their peers are celebrating their grandchildren.
You describe a very small faction of women. The same could also be said for widows and for men. Truth is there is no guarantee of happiness no matter what path you take. As we get older we often experience loss of family and loved ones, retirement, abandonment and invisibility.
Family, husband, children, grandchildren are no guarantee of personal happiness or fulfillment. As many married women find themselves alone in the face of waning years. Husbands die, leave, cheat, children move away.
I think that people in general are happier when they have freedoms, independence, choices and the ability to grow and pursue their goals and dreams no matter what they may be. Feminism opened that door for women. Women can choose to marry or not, have children or not, have a career or not, just as men can. No way that can create a hindrance to finding happiness.
I agree that feminism pitted women against women. It caused a great divide among women that is unacceptable and which CANNOT be blamed on men. Examples: young women who exclude other young women from their social cliques because they don't have long shiny smooth straight hair, dress trendy and fit a Hollywood-inspired image; working mothers who sneer at SAHM's; arrogant women who flaunt their T&A's under the excuse of empowerment (result--men won't even look at a modest woman anymore); women who backstab each other in their quest to get a man; women who find a man and wipe their girlfriends off their slate in order to be available 24/7 for the man; women who try to steal other women's spouses or significant others; women who eat their young in the working world by psychologically abusing other women by walking up to them in low cut tops and acting flirtatious; married women who refuse to be friendly to single women at social events; the list goes on.
As long as women treat other women so nastily, women will never have any true equality in this world. Women are doing more evil to other women than any man is doing.
Um, men did most of these things. Hollywood was run by men once upon a time. Women's cantankerous relationships with one another (like sabotaging another woman's achievements or mocking her appearance), senseless and irrational actions (like failing math class to impress a boy or acting like she doesn't know if tuna is fish or chicken), hyper-preoccupation with beauty, etc. can all be traced back to MEN. Society has socialized woman to make herself something else to impress the (assumed) superior male. It's viewed as "normal" in our culture. Even young boys take their superiority to girls as a given and are sometimes shocked when girls participate in "boys only" activities, and too many dads encourage their sons to view themselves as superior to women. Boy scouts learn how to be leaders and survive in the wild; girl scouts learn how to sell cookies. Stop limiting us!
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-18-2015 at 05:17 AM..
Reason: Removed icons
I'm confused. Why is that? Does it make men mad that we can work on our own and support ourselves and our families if we need to? I've seen too many men who practically hold their wives hostage in marriage.
No it means that of all the available jobs in the market you just increased the supply of labor. This decreases the wage that employees must pay. It has nothing to do with your feelings.
No it means that of all the available jobs in the market you just increased the supply of labor. This decreases the wage that employees must pay. It has nothing to do with your feelings.
From my vantage point, men still overwhelmingly get the bulk of the good paying jobs; women are stuck with the part-time and entry-level positions. More women in the workforce doesn't really take away jobs any more than MORE PEOPLE in general take away jobs.
No it means that of all the available jobs in the market you just increased the supply of labor. This decreases the wage that employees must pay. It has nothing to do with your feelings.
are you suggesting women should leave the workforce so men can have "their" jobs backs?
Um, we are socialized to not give our daughters the opportunities to learn that we give our sons. It starts very early and actually affects how our children's brains develop and how they judge their own performance.
Utter nonsense. No one is "socialized" to like what they like. And again, reality demonstrates this. Women are now the vast majority of doctors, and men the vast majority of surgeons. No one is dissuading women from going into medicine- they are doing it far more than their male counterparts. But there is a certain branch that men are just plain better at and gravitate to.
You belief in this nonsense is exactly what I am talking about.
Oh, yeah, women were sooooo much better off when they were
... forced by law and/or custom to be dependent on their husbands, fathers or brothers
... denied education
... considered their husbands' property
... not allowed to keep their children in the case of divorce
... not considered capable to be their children's guardians in case of their husbands' deaths
... not allowed to own property in their own names
... expected to marry young and stay barefoot and pregnant
... not allowed to vote or hold political office
... pushed into low paying secretarial and industrial jobs
... barred/discouraged from entering certain professions or applying for certain jobs
... paid significantly less than their male counterparts for doing the same work
... held responsible for being raped
... subject to sexual harassment in the workplace
... expected to ignore their husbands' infidelities
... expected to take beatings from their husbands or boyfriends
... expected to allow their husbands or boyfriends to beat their children ...
I could go on, but I think you gentlemen get the hint that I do not think feminism was any kind of "failure".
I agree with everything you wrote except the part about women not being allowed to keep their children in the case of a divorce. Most judges automatically gave the mother of the children custody in days past unless she was really really unfit. The prevailing view was that children belong with their mothers period.
I think what the op is trying to say is not that rights for women are bad but that the idea that a woman should not ever choose to be in a traditional role in life, of mother or housewife is bad .That maybe feminists sometimes took it too far and didn't want to be any different from a man in any way. And some woman lost touch with that part of themselves.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
