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I think you are, since there no way to absolutely determine if a voter is valid without identifying them.
You can fight all you want. The law is not on your side and it's unlikely to change, this has already been determined by SCOTUS in 2008 and reaffirmed again in March when they declined to hear the Wisconsin case. A decision by SCOTUS can only be overturned by SCOTUS and that is very rare.
Not true. A decision by SCOTUS can be reversed/remedied by Congress. That's how the checks-and-balances concept works.
Not true. A decision by SCOTUS can be reversed/remedied by Congress. That's how the checks-and-balances concept works.
Yes, SCOTUS only rules on existing law and new legislation can make a decision by SCOTUS moot as long as that legislation is constitutional. In this case it's state law that determines election law. Congress can override the regulations set by the states for federal elections but I don't know how they would enforce that because you simultaneously have state and local elections which they have no control over. In any event I doubt they are going to stick their necks out attempting to circumvent state law no matter who is in control of Congress especially considering there is overwhelming bipartisan support for voter ID from the population.
My question was not rhetorical and all the meaningless wikiposts don't provide the answer. Just answer the question and make sure there is no cost or undue hardship involved in obtaining the ID or using whatever process you develop for anyone including the disabled.
The 'all the meaningless wikiposts" is merely a list of the voter ID laws in other countries. It's actually short and sweet and kind of interesting. It's always worthwhile to have a little education on a matter, if only a little.
Somehow, most of the world (even the countries that it's likely the US Left is favorably disposed towards) manages to deal with voter ID. As a side note, it's kind of funny how people manage to register to vote, but can't register for an ID, go figure.
Personally, I can't see much difference in the result of voter ID. The people on the ragged fringe of capability, and are likely to be gathered up in short buses for their trip to the polls to vote solid 'D', will simply get help going through the ID process by the same people who currently assist them to vote. The number shouldn't change too much.
The main point in 'the meaningless wikiposts' is mostly to make the point that if the US feels the need for ID laws, that it should look at an existing set and merely copy those. Somebody else has already dealt with the edge conditions and has a more finished rule set than we might cooking up something from scratch.
they don't have to vote, what is it that you don't get about that? There has never been a fraud problem with voting in Oregon, in fact voting by mail makes the process less subject to fraud than voting at polls. You get ONE ballot at the address you have registered with, you can't vote 13 times, or whatever you are worried about.
And SO WHAT if they don't opt out? No one is going to go drag them to the polls kicking and screaming.
This is just getting silly, clearly you have been sold hook line and sinker on the idea of voter ID and you will not consider any other options. So be it...I'm not going to waste my time responding to your comments when you could have found the same answers I am giving you by spending 2 minutes on Google.
I believe I have clearly explained the potential for voter fraud as a result of having people on the rolls who have no intention of voting. It is the ability of others to obtain the ballots of the people who have no desire to vote, and cast a ballot in their name.
If down the road there's a scandal involving political operatives who target non-voters, get their ballot paperwork, fill it out and mail it in on behalf of their candidate, perhaps you'll remember this conversation.
As you yourself noted, everyone who gets an ID is registered to vote. Clearly, virtually all people getting ID have proven who they are and that they are eligible to vote. So the main issue with voter ID, i.e. people not being able to get ID and/or the documents needed to do so, is not the problem here. But you keep harping on that, out of an inability or refusal to understand the point I AM making.
So feel free to not reply... I'm sure others are capable of understanding the risk inherent in the Oregon policy.
Voter ID isn't about voter fraud. Anyone can commit fraud via mail-in ballots. And having valid photo ID doesn't always solve the problem. People have been turned away from polling places in spite of having photo ID, if their names didn't match perfectly the name on the voter roll, for example. A misspelling on the voter roll, or a name-change due to recent marriage, would disqualify someone from voting. Some people aren't able, due to cost, to muster the documents required to get state ID, such as a copy of birth certificate. In cases like that, it wouldn't matter that the state sent around a free mobile ID service to people's homes.
This issue is a lot more complex than people want to acknowledge. There seems to be a lot of self-willed ignorance involved. Seriously, how hard is it to Google the matter, and inform yourself of the details of the problem?
To the poster whose grandmother doesn't have a birth certificate: She can get a passport without a birth certificate, and use the passport to obtain a TX ID. Nothing else would be required.
Listed below are alternatives to birth certificates that the Department of State accepts on passport applications:
Early Public Records
If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship, submit a combination of early public records as evidence of your U.S. citizenship. Early public records must be submitted with a Letter of No Record. Early public records should show your name, date of birth, place of birth, and preferably be created within the first five years of your life. Examples of early public records are:
Baptismal certificate
Hospital birth certificate
Census record
Early school record
Family bible record
Doctor's record of post-natal care
To the poster whose grandmother doesn't have a birth certificate: She can get a passport without a birth certificate, and use the passport to obtain a TX ID. Nothing else would be required.
Listed below are alternatives to birth certificates that the Department of State accepts on passport applications:
Early Public Records
If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship, submit a combination of early public records as evidence of your U.S. citizenship. Early public records must be submitted with a Letter of No Record. Early public records should show your name, date of birth, place of birth, and preferably be created within the first five years of your life. Examples of early public records are:
Baptismal certificate
Hospital birth certificate
Census record
Early school record
Family bible record
Doctor's record of post-natal care
There is always a way.
That's good information, I didn't know you could get a passport without a birth certificate, but a regular passport costs $165 and a Canada/Mexico Passport card costs $55 - should a person be required to pay that in order to vote?
I believe I have clearly explained the potential for voter fraud as a result of having people on the rolls who have no intention of voting. It is the ability of others to obtain the ballots of the people who have no desire to vote, and cast a ballot in their name.
If down the road there's a scandal involving political operatives who target non-voters, get their ballot paperwork, fill it out and mail it in on behalf of their candidate, perhaps you'll remember this conversation.
As you yourself noted, everyone who gets an ID is registered to vote. Clearly, virtually all people getting ID have proven who they are and that they are eligible to vote. So the main issue with voter ID, i.e. people not being able to get ID and/or the documents needed to do so, is not the problem here. But you keep harping on that, out of an inability or refusal to understand the point I AM making.
So feel free to not reply... I'm sure others are capable of understanding the risk inherent in the Oregon policy.
That's a good point, and just to sum up a few positions.
Pro ID:
. It's really no trouble, not much more so (if any) than the voting registration
. Fraud is possible
. Most other countries manage to do it
Anti ID:
. You leave out people on the extreme margins and every vote counts.
. It somehow disproportionately effects people of color (besides pinkish)
. It would make it harder for Terry Schiavo to vote, and the nurses just knew that she would have voted straight 'D'.
Just to throw in a thought....
As a practical matter, voting fraud mostly matters (aside from the general feeling of lawlessness) when elections are squeakers, which is fairly rare. Maybe it's enough to have some sort of ID that, with expense, can be used to validate the results of an election after everyone throws their hats in the air due to fraud combined with a near miss.
While I can't think of the details of that ID (perhaps returns without IDs get double checked, thumbprints on ballots,???), perhaps the right area to amp up the process is in post vote accuracy checking, removal of felons (where applicable), double voting, etc. Perhaps you'd get most of the way there by making it easier and cheaper to contest an election.
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