The psychology of western civilization(or why mass immigration is bad)

[TheDusty]

Originally Posted by rishi85

I have a question to ask.
This topic I am bringing forth was discussed today in a panel sitting at our University. I will straight out state one man's opinion and I would like your opinion on it.

His opinion is that Western society was built on individualism whereas non western cultures are built on the basis of a collective mindset. This individualism resulted in all this technological advancement, in the formation of a civilized society. Take England for example-an island really and not too big(geographically) yet it had individuals like Byron and Shackleton and Mallery who wanted to find meaning, who wanted to explore but most importantly they weren't boggled down by a collective mindset of favoring their own kind.
This can be seen in every field from science to arts.

For example the kind of affinity you see among the blacks where they will favor the black person(it is so obvious and examples are replete in pop culture) that they literally elected a black man the president of the US based simply on the fact that he was black. Let's not be coy about these things and for once, throw PC out the window.

For most Asian societies this is the norm and hence they haven't really progressed, always embroiled in petty topics and squabbles. They will always favor their kind over the general good. Take any minority ethnicity that has recently immigrated. East Indians are everywhere in Europe or America but aren't truly belonging there. Given one chance to return for a much better life(high pay, good social status) and they will jump on the next flight.

With Western culture Individualism and rationality have always been encouraged. This has of course negative results too.


This was more or less his perspective, put far more eloquently than what I've written ofcourse. Now according to him western society is clearly in danger because the kind of collective mindset that immigrants bring will not be fruitful for an enlightened, risk taking society and our species will suffer for it. No interest in space programs or desire to explore the Oceans whereas most money would be put for greedy, selfish interests, the kind you see in any 3rd world God fearing, collective country. This is where it will all lead. You can see it happening now.

What is your take on this. Be very frank and open.

WHAT!?! Western Society is practically defined by 'favoring their own kind.' Nationalism does not exist anywhere else like it does in the West. Why do you think people are so upset about the Confederate flag? Because it connects to national pride and that's a huge deal in the West.

Look at German history. While the rest of Europe was becoming stronger and more defined, Germany was still just a sort of puddle of different ethnicities in a vague area of land called The Holy Roman Empire. It was Bismarck who unified Germany by creating a sense of national pride in the German people. And after losing WWI, that national pride was damaged and Hitler used that sense of shame to rise to power using the same methods Bismarck used (and the addition of Fascism).

In the America's, you're going to tell me that there isn't a favoring of our own kind? We whipped out an entire culture because they weren't our kind.

Yes, individualism does exist in the US, but I think you're using the wrong meaning. It's individual liberty that was prided, not individual thought. Individual thought exists all over the world, from Buddha, to Confucius, and even to Mohammad to a minimal extent. Certainly, many of the most prolific philosophers and thinkers (that we know about) came from either Europe or China, and certain the thinking of the Western philosophers shaped us, but true individualism, what we might call counter culture, has never been totally accepted by the West. The mere suggestion that religion is purely man made, at one point, would probably get you killed. There is still a social collectivism that exists in the West. All cultures have a degree of it. Indeed, liberalism was born and flourished (until fairly recently) in the West, but collectivism, as in 'group thinking' was just as prevalent.

[aznkobee]

Great thing about modern society is that when we are debating a policy topic we can find examples of another country and see whether it is better to live there or not. If you think mass immigration is a bad thing why don't we look at another wealthy country where it is almost impossible for foreigners to become citizens, that is Japan. So without mass immigration you get a very harmonized mono culture. Everybody kind of act, say and think the same. Crime is very low because everybody gets along with each other on the surface. Individualism, innovation, entrepreneurship are suppressed in favor of yes man and salary man. However, economy is shrinking, year over year deflation if no stimulus because population is decreasing without immigration to fill the void. Where will Japan be in 20 years if nothing changed? who knows but it won't be good. So if that sounds like the ideal place for you then maybe you should move to Japan

[steve1282]

Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach

I should rephrase it as anecdotal evidence. I was born in AL and spent most of my life in the south. I know dozens of people that are very racist and the vast majority are currently pro GOP and claim to be conservative. Many are not politically savvy and are not true conservatives (think the rich should be taxed more heavily) IMO. But I don't know a single racist who identifies as liberal.

Come up north it will open your eyes . Like I said conservatives are vocal about it liberals are the same but tell themselves their not racist so they think it.

[k350]

Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny

Conservatives are always insisting that they hate Obama for his policies and not his race (which is probably true for some, but not for most), yet insist that people voted for him only because he is back. Ironic. Most black people (and most of his supporters) voted for him FOR his policies and abilities, not just because he is black.

Frankly that sounds pretty racist.

This individualism problem that the US has been a hindrance. Every other civilized society has strong social programs including healthcare and education, while the US is lagging further and further behind and this push from conservatives to privatize everything will only make matters worse. Yes, we have a great space program, strong military, are medically advanced and inventive, but as wealthy as the US is, we can afford to do both. Cut back on military spending, cut back on politician salaries, cut back on prison spending and incarceration, stop the drug war, raise taxes and remove tax loopholes on the top 1% and we'll have plenty to spend in these other areas so we can take care of each other AND advance in science, technology, the arts, etc. Then we will have a shot at being number one again.

Most blacks vote Democrat no matter who is running; I doubt they even bother to analyze the policies in depth or anything, a simple "D" by the name is sufficient. Not just them, but the Republican core as well who vote for the person with the "R" by the name, without going into depth over the policies.

Individualism in the US has been what made/makes the US great and into the position it is today.

[CBMD]

I agree with the points made by Cida, Pennies4Penny, and ReachTheBeach above.