Should people have to demonstrate understanding of where candidates stand on the issues before being allowed to vote? (middle east, suspect)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Our government was designed a long time ago to keep the hands of the uneducated riff-raff well away from the actual levers of power. Given the results of polls and surveys today, it's pretty easy to see why. Meanwhile, the job of lawmakers is to represent the interests of constituents, not their silly opinions.
Wow. What you are describing is not democracy IMO. I don't think our government of the people, by the people, for the people was designed to do what you are describing at all.
Our government was designed a long time ago to keep the hands of the uneducated riff-raff well away from the actual levers of power. Given the results of polls and surveys today, it's pretty easy to see why. Meanwhile, the job of lawmakers is to represent the interests of constituents, not their silly opinions.
Tell you what....
I see a lot of "uneducated riff-raff" who know a lot more of what is really going on than "educated" people.
Now, I know your post was a joke to draw fire (can't use the "t" word, but it applies) but still insulting people for the sake of insulting people isn't supposed to be allowed in this forum.
Wow. What you are describing is not democracy IMO. I don't think our government of the people, by the people, for the people was designed to do what you are describing at all.
Democracy was the very last thing the founders wanted to see. What the people who wrote the phrase "We, the People" meant by that was themselves -- educated, wealthy, white, male land-owners. Nobody else. They understood and feared the dangers of actual democracy and designed their new government to be insulated and well removed from the influences of the masses. George Washington was elected our first President on the basis of votes from well below 5% of the free adult population. That's about as far as the founders ever wanted to see things go.
As for today, lawmakers tabulate the content of their e-mails, but they are not looking for advice. They are gauging the degrees of freedom they have to move in one direction or another on a significant issue without compromising themselves. The opinions of illiterates manipulated by demagogues primarily don't and essentially shouldn't have any role to play in the process of governance.
Last edited by Reynard32; 08-28-2015 at 03:10 PM..
Tell you what....I see a lot of "uneducated riff-raff" who know a lot more of what is really going on than "educated" people.
I would have every reason to doubt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET
Now, I know your post was a joke to draw fire (can't use the "t" word, but it applies) but still insulting people for the sake of insulting people isn't supposed to be allowed in this forum.
No joke. Simply a report of what the founders were doing in pulling together a new -- and much stronger -- central government as they tried to rescue the young nation from the chaos and impending collapse that the Articles of Confederation had it headed toward.
Yes, but it should be a test on civics in general, not current issues. The questions should be similar to or derived from the citizenship exam, and people's vote should be weighted by the percentage of an answers they get right.
Although I think I know what point you are making, some people lack reading comprehension (although they might be able to listen well and understand) and some people might be turned off at the idea of taking a test and thus not vote at all. I think that because of this, election results would then be determined -- as at least one poster already said -- by those who are more educated. Although this might be a good thing in some ways, it would mean, I think, that much of the lower socioeconomic class would not be proportionately represented, and so we would have even more of a situation where the privileged class determines what is good for everyone according to their (the elite's) viewpoint. Very paternalistic, to put it as nicely as I can.
It would also add even more costs for taxpayers, and as you and others have already pointed out, the tests would be extremely difficult to administer and administer fairly.
[Btw, I am also against mail-in ballots for anyone other than those who are disabled or who will be out of the country on voting day. I think one way to have better government and laws is to have elected officials and issues decided by those who actually care enough to take time out of their day to vote. If there is too long a wait to vote (which has never been an issue in any of the places I have lived), then there should be more polling places and/or voting booths and/or workers who check people in.]
Last edited by katharsis; 08-28-2015 at 03:45 PM..
Our government was designed a long time ago to keep the hands of the uneducated riff-raff well away from the actual levers of power. Given the results of polls and surveys today, it's pretty easy to see why. Meanwhile, the job of lawmakers is to represent the interests of constituents, not their silly opinions.
Our form of government requires the education of the citizens to maintain their liberty.
"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278
It's only been in the last 40 years that we have dumbed down our society to such an extent that the electorate is unable to distinguish between the perversion of power into tyranny and true liberty.
Here are a couple of quotes from Thomas Jefferson that I really like:
"No nation is permitted to live in ignorance with impunity." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1821. ME 19:408
"If the children are untaught, their ignorance and vices will in future life cost us much dearer in their consequences than it would have done in their correction by a good education." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1818. FE 10:99
The main problem that I see is the "get out and vote" campaigns. Those on the left and on the right who are passionate about the issues and who are informed will go to vote no matter what. But the media and the government pushes the message that everyone needs to go out and vote. This, in turn, drives a lot of people to the polls who are not knowledgeable of the issues and simply vote for a candidate based on their looks, personality, race, last name, party, etc....
Very true. In fact in some countries voting is compulsory. So we are not that bad.
Hey, I'd be happy if people were just obliged to prove that they could read and understand a complex paragraph from The New York Times or The Economist.
Our form of government requires the education of the citizens to maintain their liberty.
Our form of government is not unique in that regard. The foundation of every state is the education of its youth. That's Diogenes. Meanwhile, the dues for membership in society are surrender of much freedom, liberty, and personal autonomy. You cannot claim these back while yet retaining the benefits afforded by the society you belong to. You can have your cake or eat it, but not both.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
