Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Occam's razor does not admit of of such fantastic claims as gods or any of their imaginations. Fantastic claims may not always require fantastic evidence, but they always do require at least SOME evidence, and there isn't any at all on the table for claims of gods or their imaginations.
Is there any evidence for the fantastic claim that the universe came to exist for no reason and with no cause? How is that different? A fantastic theory should be taken seriously if it provides a simple and elegant explanation of observations. We observe our fantastic physical world and try to explain it as having come into existence spontaneously without cause. That fantastic theory is no less fantastic than the theory that we exist only in the imagination of a god, who in turn only exists in the imagination of a greater god, ad infinitum. What's so fantastic about the imagination theory that makes it more fantastic than the theory that the universe came to exist spontaneously without cause? The laws of nature were created at random, with no reason for any of them, and nothing to cause any of them? Compared to that theory, imaginations of gods hardly seem any more fantastic.
You say at least some evidence is required. But what evidence is there, that anything we see or seem, is anything beyond a dream? There is a lot of evidence of the details of that reality or that dream, but zero evidence of which it is.
I speculate that the big bang was a result of two universes colliding to create this one with its emergent cluster of universal laws. I think its probable this could happen again as we cannot view from an outside perspective to see where in relation the universe is just as only recently we could detect and map the trajectory of rogue asteroids.
We can't just say "oh god did it" (this is called God of the Gaps) just because we didn't happen at the very beginning of time. Heck, it's even idiotic to say "I know god didn't do it" and that "the big bang definitely made the world". But then again, there is still more evidence to the big bang and not much for deities.
I just don't deal with absolutes. So it's better to just wait, see and discover more. We may find out one day, or we may not. I personally don't believe that a god made this universe, or that's it's highly unlikely. But am I 100% certain that a deity doesn't exist? Of course not. Otherwise I'd be no different to someone who says "there is a god for certain".
With that being said, I am 100% certain that the gods in our religious books don't exist (i.e. Abrahamic God, Sikh, Hindu, Greek gods, etc). We would not have contact with them whatsoever, and there's no evidence that we did. I'm more open to a Deistic god though, but that isn't saying much since I'm an Atheist anyway. Maybe more specifically, Agnostic Atheist I guess.
We can't just say "oh god did it" (this is called God of the Gaps) just because we didn't happen at the very beginning of time. Heck, it's even idiotic to say "I know god didn't do it" and that "the big bang definitely made the world". But then again, there is still more evidence to the big bang and not much for deities.
I just don't deal with absolutes. So it's better to just wait, see and discover more. We may find out one day, or we may not. I personally don't believe that a god made this universe, or that's it's highly unlikely. But am I 100% certain that a deity doesn't exist? Of course not. Otherwise I'd be no different to someone who says "there is a god for certain".
With that being said, I am 100% certain that the gods in our religious books don't exist (i.e. Abrahamic God, Sikh, Hindu, Greek gods, etc). We would not have contact with them whatsoever, and there's no evidence that we did. I'm more open to a Deistic god though, but that isn't saying much since I'm an Atheist anyway. Maybe more specifically, Agnostic Atheist I guess.
And even if there is, in fact, some intelligent entity or presence which create all that is, we don't know if it is a "He" or a "She" or an "It" or a "They" . . . or if it used to exist by doesn't anymore and the universe just runs in a sort of auto-pilot mode . . . or if said god(s) is a deistic rather than a theistic entity (or even pantheistic) . . . and multitudinous other postulations. Each postualtion having as much provability as the every other postulation -- which presently is zero provability for ANY and ALL of them.
I haven't read through all 15 pages of this thread, so sorry if this has already been mentioned but interestingly enough the Big Bang theory was originally proposed by a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître
There is no conflict between Theism and the Big Bang theory, so I am not sure why this is positioned as an Atheist only idea.
I haven't read through all 15 pages of this thread, so sorry if this has already been mentioned but interestingly enough the Big Bang theory was originally proposed by a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître
There is no conflict between Theism and the Big Bang theory, so I am not sure why this is positioned as an Atheist only idea.
And that's exactly what I mean by how these religions have nothing to do with the Bible! As a Catholic priest this kind of thinking is an abomination.
Every once in a while, the bible actually inspires some wisdom.
One of those is "none is so blind as those who won't see".
Start opening your eyes to reality and humanity, and get away from your hobby of adoring imaginary friends.
Brother I live in no delusional world, I live reality everyday and that's been the case with me for all my 22 years of living. My eyes been open for a while now from studying ancient Khemet/Egytology, being a Christian from birth until being exposed to the truth and now having my 3rd eye open to who I'm really am and my true identity! The fact is you cannot criticize or judge me for "adoring imaginary friends" when you're adoring scientific mythology! People comes up with different theories all the time and 95% of the time new theories are born that debunks the old ones, I guess you didn't know there's a new theory that says the universe has no beginning or a end therefore the Big Bang never occured.
The scientist Carl Sagan (The Cosmos) believed in God and said science and belief in God are not opposing views.
Sagan was a life-long atheist. You may have him confused with the paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould who posited "separate magesteria" -- one over facts that was the province of science, and one over values that was the province of philosophy and religion.
Brother I live in no delusional world, I live reality everyday and that's been the case with me for all my 22 years of living. My eyes been open for a while now from studying ancient Khemet/Egytology, being a Christian from birth until being exposed to the truth and now having my 3rd eye open to who I'm really am and my true identity! The fact is you cannot criticize or judge me for "adoring imaginary friends" when you're adoring scientific mythology! People comes up with different theories all the time and 95% of the time new theories are born that debunks the old ones, I guess you didn't know there's a new theory that says the universe has no beginning or a end therefore the Big Bang never occured.
How does your personal journey of learning more about yourself have anything to do with with what the Op wants to know more about which is "Atheists theories about the creation of the universe."?
Why not start a new thread about your personal journey?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
