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Employers don't have an incentive to pay their employee too little for them to even eat. You think they'd want starving employees who are less productive? Just think supply and demand of labor. Or is this an exception? Also, employers have to compete with other employers. They can't afford to underpay their workers. If they're underpaying their workers, there's a risk that those workers will instead work for an employer that pays equilibrium market wage. Please use economics in your arguments.
Bull, employers have the incentive to pay as little as possible and it doesnt mean their employees eat or have a good standard of living, as long as those employees are productive enough to pay that salary and some. It is true that they might compite for the same labor hence increasing of salaries, it is about competition for labor not about being generous to employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstsunami55
As China gained more manufacturing jobs, the US became more service-oriented. So why don't we just adapt? A firm isn't obliged to hire anyone of a certain nationality. So if firms don't want to hire forklift drivers in the US, than maybe those forklift drivers need different jobs.
ok, China is only competitive for a number of reasons:
- no enviromental laws
- no labor laws or in both cases not enforced at all by their government.
- no intelectual property laws or not enforced
- protectionism of their own market/ industries
- government subsidies and loans
without those, China would not be competitive for most goods, end of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less
To capital. They still matter a lot to people.
Oh borders are extremely important for the capital, look at all the complex entities created just to avoid taxation. Without those national borders, the Capital (comapnies, trust funds, hedge funds, banks, etc...) would have to say good bye to a huge chunk of their money.
Bull, employers have the incentive to pay as little as possible and it doesnt mean their employees eat or have a good standard of living, as long as those employees are productive enough to pay that salary and some. It is true that they might compite for the same labor hence increasing of salaries, it is about competition for labor not about being generous to employees.
Do you have any clue what supply and demand of labor is? Simply put, labor has supply and demand. The more productive workers get paid more because they're in higher demand. And generosity? They're not going to be generous for the sake of being generous. They have no obligation to do that. What do you think a firm is? As an employee, you need to offer something, and in return, the firm will reward you and be generous to you if you do.
ok, China is only competitive for a number of reasons:
- no enviromental laws
- no labor laws or in both cases not enforced at all by their government.
- no intelectual property laws or not enforced
- protectionism of their own market/ industries
- government subsidies and loans
without those, China would not be competitive for most goods, end of.
So what are you going to do about it? Can you do anything about China? Boycott chinese-made goods? Go ahead and boycott them then.
China is a developing country. The US used to be like that in the Gilded age back in the late 1800's. You can't compare a developing country to a developed one. The fact is that every country goes through that stage on the path to development. Hundreds of millions of people have risen out of poverty since China's economy started growing. Do you realize how amazing that is? A developing country can't have what you mentioned because it wouldn't be economically competitive for a developing country. It has to do what it can to foster economic growth, and then it can focus on those issues. As China's economic growth has slowed down, it is in fact, beginning to work on fixing those problems.
Why did those people immigrate at all? You don't think it was because of the lack of opportunities in their home countries? What if the prosperity of "America's middle class" came at the expense of others due to an artificial restriction of immigration. It sounds like you're just repeating liberal rhetoric. Now, as I said before, I'm neither economically liberal nor conservative. I don't care for propaganda. I care about what makes sense and what's logical. I might as well be independent. I don't think you understand economics, like many hardcore liberals/socialists. This is a global economy. Firms are no longer geographically restricted. People need to learn to adapt. People are not entitled to a job when someone else in the world can be hired.
So because they have the lack of opportunities in their home countries we owe them a living ? And the prosperity of America's middle class came at the expense of others in foreign countries because they were not allowed to flood our labor market while having no citizenship and no rights to work here ? And you call it "artificial" restriction on immigration ?
So because they have the lack of opportunities in their home countries we owe them a living ? And the prosperity of America's middle class came at the expense of others in foreign countries because they were not allowed to flood our labor market while having no citizenship and no rights to work here ? And you call it "artificial" restriction on immigration ?
Wow.
I don't think you realize how privileged Americans are compared to the much of the world.
Do you have any clue what supply and demand of labor is? Simply put, labor has supply and demand. The more productive workers get paid more because they're in higher demand. And generosity? They're not going to be generous for the sake of being generous. They have no obligation to do that. What do you think a firm is? As an employee, you need to offer something, and in return, the firm will reward you and be generous to you if you do.
What are you talking about? I agreed that labor cost usually goes up and down depending on productivity and competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstsunami55
So what are you going to do about it? Can you do anything about China? Boycott chinese-made goods? Go ahead and boycott them then.
China is a developing country. The US used to be like that in the Gilded age back in the late 1800's. You can't compare a developing country to a developed one. The fact is that every country goes through that stage on the path to development. Hundreds of millions of people have risen out of poverty since China's economy started growing. Do you realize how amazing that is? A developing country can't have what you mentioned because it wouldn't be economically competitive for a developing country. It has to do what it can to foster economic growth, and then it can focus on those issues. As China's economic growth has slowed down, it is in fact, beginning to work on fixing those problems.
What is the Chinese government is doing to fix those issues? i have no heard of any changes to the current status quo.
What I would like is to be able to open a factory in the US with the same conditions tnat the Chinese imports enjoy. Just to level the field as we are not in the XIX century anymore. In absemce of that opportunity, I would like the government to apply taxes to the companies importing goods/ services to the US and Europe.
It depends on what kind of foreigner were talking about. I've never heard of anyone complain about Europeans, Canadians, Australians or Asians coming to America and stealing jobs. It's only those from south of the border that seem to be of concern.
Oh, I dunno. I'm sure there are a lot of American actors who wish the Europeans (e.g. Mads Mikkelsen, but especially those from the UK and Ireland), Canadians, Australians and Kiwis (from New Zealand)—so many of whom can emulate even regional American dialects perfectly—would leave so that American actors could wouldn't lose out on so many great roles.
I don't think you realize how privileged Americans are compared to the much of the world.
We intend on keeping it that way and from the looks of the current political situation in the US American it will get more complication for foreigners to get work in the US. We don't owe you anything.
We intend on keeping it that way and from the looks of the current political situation in the US American it will get more complication for foreigners to get work in the US. We don't owe you anything.
I never said we did. Nobody owes us anything either.
If society/country doesn't entitle its members to certain rock bottom things, what's the point of that association?
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