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Go for it. My guess is that would lead to no sex at all which would solve the problem.
Really? Women are unwilling to make that type of written commitment?
Also, @Meyerland: Do you think that vasectomy doctors should pay all of their patients' child support for 18+ years in the event of a vasectomy failure?
The easy solution would be to make all fathers responsible for their offspring per DNA testing, no matter what.
If the men went into sex knowing that any offspring that resulted was their responsibility, regardless of what a woman said or did - things would definitely change.
It's so easy to have spontaneous sex and then blame the woman for any consequences. So, let's take all of her power away. What do you say to that, guys?
No more defense regarding she lied, blah blah blah.
And if there's a kid, she hands it over to you to deal with. No matter what.
Then men who complain about how expensive child support is, can learn first-hand how expensive it really is to raise a kid in the right neighborhood and the right schools and how often they grow out of shoes.
Yep. I think that's the answer. The kid has your male DNA, it's handed over to you at birth.
The easy solution would be to make all fathers responsible for their offspring per DNA testing, no matter what.
If the men went into sex knowing that any offspring that resulted was their responsibility, regardless of what a woman said or did - things would definitely change.
It's so easy to have spontaneous sex and then blame the woman for any consequences. So, let's take all of her power away. What do you say to that, guys?
No more defense regarding she lied, blah blah blah.
And if there's a kid, she hands it over to you to deal with. No matter what.
Then men who complain about how expensive child support is, can learn first-hand how expensive it really is to raise a kid in the right neighborhood and the right schools and how often they grow out of shoes.
Yep. I think that's the answer. The kid has your male DNA, it's handed over to you at birth.
You are aware that your proposal here can simply result in men exploiting safe haven laws en masse, correct?
I can't because I am male and haven't been with a female partner who uses/used one. I have used male condoms and they can tear even if put on and used correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
That's why you use them with spermicidal jelly and a backup like a sponge/diaphragm/BC pills.
You can also decrease a males fertility by wearing tight underwear and using a hot tub or very hot baths.
It's not rocket science.
Well some men have high sperm counts or low sperm counts as you later mentioned. Tight underwear and hot water can lower counts but aren't an elixir, even vasectomies aren't (though pretty damn close.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
When used in conjunction they are. Use three methods of BC, decrease your sperm count, and pay attention to your partners cycle. It's that simple.
Have you even tested your own fertility? You may have a very low count or have poor motility. Why not get that done before obsessing over the potential of fathering unwanted children.
I don't think it so much obsessing as much as it females being given extra rights jut like their ability to not get drafted should selective service come into play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110
False; after all, since all of these birth control methods can individually fail, all of these birth control methods can also simultaneously fail.
Let's see what effectivenesses are. https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.o.../effectiveness The failure rate of the pill is .03 (if used properly) or 8% in actual use. Male condoms have a failure rate of 2% and an actual use failure rate of 15%. Spermicide has a failure rate of 18% and an actual use of 29%. So let's say one uses all three, that still gives a 348 out of 10000 people when taking actual use and human error into consideration. With a female population of 154m females (roughly 51% of the US population), that can be as many as 545 thousand women getting pregnant if they all use those three methods together and they all fail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
We didn't have any unwanted pregnancies, because we took precautions. It's that simple. The people who have unwanted pregnancies only used one method and incorrectly. Seriously, you need some education in birth control methods from a doctor and not from weird internet sites.
Well then, there is your answer. Find a woman who is not genetically female.
Education is a good start BUT is often heavily reliant on luck too. You can inspect condoms, roll them on correctly, pinch the resvevior tip before use and still have it break right before finishing to a sexual release. That article I listed mentioned that withdrawal is only 73% effective in practice (somehow it is 96% in theory.) You can also know your regular cycle and be off. The calendar method is 75% effective in practice and at worst 95% effective in theory. This means that knowledge while a good basis, isn't exactly power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
When used in conjunction and correctly, you will not have an unplanned pregnancy. Seriously, speak with your doctor about this. Use multiple methods of contraception correctly and be done with it.
The point may even be moot, as your fertility has not been established. Your MD can help you on this. If you can't afford a doctor, use a pharmacy. There is a plethora of reliable data out there on all the forms of BC and your doctor can answer questions.
Honestly, I think a therapist/ psychiatrist help you better than a regular doctor. This obsession is not the norm. Just because a few outliers on the internet agree with you, does not make it the norm.
Well as I have shown, it is not at all a done deal. I found it to be somewhere around a 0.34% chance that a woman can get pregnant with the failure rates of birth control methods. Adding the calendar method only decreases it to 0.00087% so not exactly out of the woods but a bit better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
It is widely available and free. Many MDs offer free packets of BC pills to teens starting out to see if they are compatible with their systems. Most high schools even give access to condoms, and I live in a conservative part of the US. I've seen plenty of middle schoolers blowing up condoms as balloons, so they can't be that hard to find.
This is true but one still has to ask for them and not have their parents find out if their parents aren't supportive of their sexual exploration as young adults. My parents weren't. Luckily I was nowhere near sexually active until I was in college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal
Not a lot of women like taking hormonal birth control either. In fact, some can't. And they don't work 100% of the time either. Suck it up or deal with the consequences.
You are aware that your proposal here can simply result in men exploiting safe haven laws en masse, correct?
Statements that start with "you are aware" are so pompous. And if you must use bolding to make a point, you simply aren't very good at making your point, IMO.
But, hey, what they decide to do with the baby is on them. Maybe the safe haven laws can be changed, too. It will cost you $500,000 if you decide to give up the baby and you can't file bankruptcy on that debt, like student loan debt.
You are aware that laws can be changed in this country, right?
Just give the man the ability to compel an abortion if he doesn't want a kid. Problem solved.
Accept the risk if you are going to have sex with someone. I did a couple of long climbs in the Alps this sommer- I picked routes I felt capable of which were mostly well protectable but I have to accept that I could still very well be killed in the process and there is nothing I could do to totally eliminate that risk. If I was not ok with that than I would not go.
It´s the same with sex except that the risk is not of being killed but becoming a father- which is not so bad.
People should be paying for their own damned kids, period. If you are too daft or too irresponsible to take precautions to avoid unwanted pregnancy, or lack the will or means to pay for YOUR offspring in the event of an unexpected pregnancy, you shouldn't be having sex to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Just give the man the ability to compel an abortion if he doesn't want a kid. Problem solved.
Society should also compel said man to be forced to undergo a vasectomy while we are at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GER308
It´s the same with sex except that the risk is not of being killed but becoming a father- which is not so bad.
I think it is safe to say there are a lot of irresponsible douchebags out there that would strongly disagree.
My story is one of where the system is so far slanted to protecting the custodial parents rights it's down right a disaster. My first ex wife (who has had one job for a year of her entire 40 years on this planet) was supported by me when we were married. We had two kids (only one is mine I'm sure of it, although she refuses to DNA testing) together. I left her when my daughter was 3 and the other kid was 5 months old. I immediately started paying her support by mailing her a check every month, I lived 18 hours drive apart from her and so seeing the kids was not a very viable option. But I moved on, got remarried, and she married the guy she was cheating on me with. He is an engineer and makes well into the six figures, they have a nice house, cars, clothes etc. Her birthday cake this year was a Louis Vitton design that said "Born to Shop" on top of it. His was shaped like a Ferrari.
After the first year and a half of paying her, I get a call that Texas Child support division is going to throw me in jail. I freak out, because I've been paying her and they tell me it doesn't count because I sent the checks directly to her and not through them. So, basically at this point a negative hit goes onto my credit report saying I owe 11,000 in past due child support. This is in like 2005, I can't buy a home, car, credit card, personal loan, or change jobs due to the being on my credit report.
Ok so in 2007, I have a really good year at work, I was averaging 14,000 per month that year. My child support with arrears at the time was $550 per month. I get a phone call one day from my ex and her "advocate" at the child support office stating that I made too much money for what I was paying her and that they were going to raise my support to the state requirements of 26% of my income. That's over 3K per month they were going to charge me. Now, I had just taken on a new mortgage, baby, car payment and was trying to put my new wife through college on my single income and so again I freaked out. I told them that if they tried to do that I would get a lawyer involved so they said, well, we can just work something out over the phone, so, verbally, I agreed to $1200 per month but I was assure that if and when my income went back down, all I had to do was call and they would adjust it accordingly.
Well, not 4 months later the bubble popped and I went from 14K per month down to 2500 per month. I stood to lose my home, cars, and basically everything I had. So, I call the child support folks, and they said all they needed to do was to have my ex come in for an appointment, and we could talk it out over the phone, so they set the appointment and I thought everything would be okay.
I then lose my job and take what I could get at $1090 per month. I call in the day of my appointment and she's a no show, so I ask what I need to do and they said they would reset the appointment for 60 days later. So we set it, and in 60 days I call in for the appointment, my ex is a no show. This goes on for 2 YEARS! All the while, I'm not able to send her more that $200 per month, so that's what I sent her, what I could you know?
So, after many attempts to get her to show up at the appointment, I finally call the District Attorney of Texas (somehow he answered my call) and he told me I should be represented by a lawyer. I ask if they provide one for low income people and he replied, well, if you're a woman yes but not usually for the father.
At this point I owe over $35000 and they are talking jail time, all because she no shows my hearing to lower my support and because she lied to them about receiving personal checks from me for the first year and a half.
So I set a court date, which the "advocates" that work for the TX Child Support Division said I should have done in the first place, and the day before I'm to travel to TX for the court hearing I get a call that my ex wants to settle things out of court. So after a lengthy discussion, I get them to cut the arrears in half to 17,000 and my support went down to $775.
Here's the really sad part of all this, my ex is completely evil....She has not allowed me to speak to, visit, send Xmas cards, or have any part of the children's lives. I haven't seen my daughter in 14 years. My daughter hates me because her mom tells her how bad of a person I am. I tried to get the law involved, and their answer was that on my visitation days, I would have to show up at her home, if she refused to let me see them when I showed up, I was instructed to call the cops and have a report written up on her. I was to do this for around 6 months and then based on her not allowing me to see the kids, I could take her to court over it.
At the time I lived in SC and she lived in TX. I couldn't afford the child support, so how am I to afford bi-weekly flights to TX?
My gripe at this point is this, she lives comfortably, golf course lot, indoor swimming pool, two story home in an upper middle class neighborhood. I live in a single wide, can't buy a car/home/credit due to this back child support for kids I haven't seen in 14 years. When is enough enough?
If I could afford a lawyer, I'd fight her. But I've had lawyers tell me it's no use because the district my court case would be held in is the absolute worst judge in TX for siding with the custodial parent. I have had several lawyers tell me until that judge dies, I can forget about winning a child support case in that district.
I am okay with paying my support, I have been current on payments since 2009, I have paid the arrears down from 17,500 to less that 6,000, but I still have a judgment on my credit.
I cannot get a passport. I can't buy anything on credit, my score is in the low 500's due to this judgement. I cannot get a job that checks credit as a pre-employment tool. The lists of how this crap has ruined my quality of life goes on and on.
My ex tells me (in writing and verbally) that she only continues to "punish" me because she hates me. Meanwhile, I watch my kids grow up on facebook, watch my support money go to pay for indoor pools and vacations, and suffer in poverty.
So yes, I am for child support reform on every level.
So yes, I am for child support reform on every level.
I agree totally- reform is needed. But you did not seek to shirk your responsibility.
I pay child support to an ex who earns way more than I do, A new car, a new house, expensive vacations... while I struggle. I live in a cheap flat an am totally stressing trying to get my old car over the saftey inspection.
My siuation is not nearly as extreme as yours and I have great contact with my daughter, have 50% custody....
Still that is not really what the OP was going on about.
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