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Sorry, there is no free education. Stealing money from one group of people so someone can get free schooling is monstrously evil and immoral. Your education is YOUR problem and your problem ALONE. Do not think like a thief. Stealing from others is wrong, and gubmint provided free ANYTHING means there are victims. You have no right to any level of income, no right to an education, no right to housing, no right to medical care, no right to food. You are not a slave holder, you don't get to demand the property and wealth of others to satisfy your personal needs. Bernie Sanders is a philosophical hideous monster, and he is proposing nothing less than the enslavement of Americans and catering to the worst among us.
I don't think you understand what "stealing" means. A government taxing people with the intent of providing a public service for all is not stealing. I also don't think you have anything that approximates a coherent theory of morality.
It does seem there is a strong correlation between the use of the word "gubmint" and unintelligible posts, however.
It should be "free", but if they fail, they have to pay for what it normally would have cost them. If they discontinued going to school, it should be handled case by case scenario.
And, what about childless people, do they get a tax break? They wont be sending anyone to school XD. Or as an adult, will they give a cash back for students who didn't go to school?
Do you propose these same ideas for public high school, which we already have? People drop out of high school, and childless people currently pay taxes to fund public schools.
So I am of the age where every time I hear a complaining millennial I want to shout "in my time we worked our butts off to pay for school and graduated debt free!!". But then I become rational, use my college education, and see that the times back then were much, much different than today.
State universities back then, while not free, were all but free. I went to ASU for a year (long story) and I think I paid $300.00 a semester. Even adjusting for inflation a student bussing/waiting tables at Guggy's could pull that off.
State universities cost $25,000 a year now. That's an impossible amount of table waitin' to graduate debt free.
Whilst I agree that Senator Sander's call for free college maybe unreasonable, the younger generation should be ENTITLED to a reasonable avenue to a diploma. Just like we had handed to us.
So I am of the age where every time I hear a complaining millennial I want to shout "in my time we worked our butts off to pay for school and graduated debt free!!". But then I become rational, use my college education, and see that the times back then were much, much different than today.
State universities back then, while not free, were all but free. I went to ASU for a year (long story) and I think I paid $300.00 a semester. Even adjusting for inflation a student bussing/waiting tables at Guggy's could pull that off.
State universities cost $25,000 a year now. That's an impossible amount of table waitin' to graduate debt free.
Whilst I agree that Senator Sander's call for free college maybe unreasonable, the younger generation should be ENTITLED to a reasonable avenue to a diploma. Just like we had handed to us.
Good post. I think some people have a tendency to assume that the supporters of a certain idea must be the direct recipients of the proposed benefits. It's sort of like assuming a gay rights advocate must be gay. While Sanders' proposal would certainly benefit future college students, many people who support this idea have already graduated. It isn't as though his supporters are just a bunch of lazy folks who want free handouts.
College costs have far outpaced inflation, and it is increasingly difficult to obtain a good job without a college degree. That's a bad combination.
I also think some people in this thread are discounting the societal value that comes from having a more educated populace.
So I am of the age where every time I hear a complaining millennial I want to shout "in my time we worked our butts off to pay for school and graduated debt free!!". But then I become rational, use my college education, and see that the times back then were much, much different than today.
State universities back then, while not free, were all but free. I went to ASU for a year (long story) and I think I paid $300.00 a semester. Even adjusting for inflation a student bussing/waiting tables at Guggy's could pull that off.
State universities cost $25,000 a year now. That's an impossible amount of table waitin' to graduate debt free.
Whilst I agree that Senator Sander's call for free college maybe unreasonable, the younger generation should be ENTITLED to a reasonable avenue to a diploma. Just like we had handed to us.
You went to college at a time where it was artificially cheap. Historically, college had been much more expensive (relative to income) than it was in the 70's... or even now. Which is fine since the vast majority of people don't enter academia or professional programs. The system has worked for centuries. Don't consider a small glitch a fix something that isn't broken.
You went to college at a time where it was artificially cheap. Historically, college had been much more expensive (relative to income) than it was in the 70's... or even now. Which is fine since the vast majority of people don't enter academia or professional programs. The system has worked for centuries. Don't consider a small glitch a fix something that isn't broken.
I'm a bit lazy so I didn't read your previous posts, am I to understand that your position is that higher education should be pretty much unattainable to the average?
Free college is a horrible idea. I have a degree and I have friends without one that make far more than I do. A degree is not a mandatory to succeed in life. What makes one succeed is motivation and desire. College is a privilege not a right. Want free college...join the military or get a scholarship. If everyone gets a degree there will be far more people out there that will be unemployed because no one will be willing to take the lesser paying jobs because they now have this "degree". With people unwilling to work these lower paying jobs, who will take them? the illegal immigrants that everyone wants around so badly? Life isn't easy, you need to work hard for what you want and cant and should not rely on anyone but yourself to make things happen. My wife graduated college in 2001 and we are still paying on her student loans, though its a small payment, we are not complaining about it, we just make the payment. As for our kids, they are both under 10 years old and already have a pretty sizeable college fund set aside that we add to each month. Its called being responsible and this is how the future generation should be aided through college.
If anything why not just extend high school for those who desire a "Free" education? Doing that would essentially be the same as sending them to a college for free which is what that free college would turn into anyway...a high school.
Either way, I don't see the problem with the cost of college. Sure the sticker price today is astronomical compared to what I was looking at even back in 1998.
But there are dozens and dozens of cheaper options today than there were 18 years ago when I first started college.
Many colleges, including reputable Brick & Mortar schools offer online degree programs which are indistinguishable to the on-campus ones. Doing a program, online, at home, alone would cut down majorly on costs such as housing and food, probably by about 1/3rd. In addition, textbook sharing programs are quite popular now on tablets and other online software.
There are just so many ways students today can be 'smarter' about cutting costs rather than just creating these sweeping legislations that would essentially end up doing more harm than good.
If I could do it all over again--being from Pennsylvania, I probably would have attended a local community college first, taking courses that were guaranteed to transfer over to a 4 year program at Penn State. Then I would have attended Penn State Online and completed my degree in next 2-3 years while living at home. With in-state tuition, cutting costs on living expenses by living at home and with Pell Grants and/or additional scholarships, I probably would have gone to school completely free or close to it.
You went to college at a time where it was artificially cheap. Historically, college had been much more expensive (relative to income) than it was in the 70's... or even now. Which is fine since the vast majority of people don't enter academia or professional programs. The system has worked for centuries. Don't consider a small glitch a fix something that isn't broken.
You really think the educational needs of 2016 are comparable to the educational needs of prior centuries?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangman66
Free college is a horrible idea. I have a degree and I have friends without one that make far more than I do. A degree is not a mandatory to succeed in life. What makes one succeed is motivation and desire. College is a privilege not a right. Want free college...join the military or get a scholarship. If everyone gets a degree there will be far more people out there that will be unemployed because no one will be willing to take the lesser paying jobs because they now have this "degree". With people unwilling to work these lower paying jobs, who will take them? the illegal immigrants that everyone wants around so badly? Life isn't easy, you need to work hard for what you want and cant and should not rely on anyone but yourself to make things happen. My wife graduated college in 2001 and we are still paying on her student loans, though its a small payment, we are not complaining about it, we just make the payment. As for our kids, they are both under 10 years old and already have a pretty sizeable college fund set aside that we add to each month. Its called being responsible and this is how the future generation should be aided through college.
Look up average lifetime earnings of college graduates compared to lifetime earnings of non-college grads. The fact that you know some anecdotes doesn't disprove the data.
Most of your statements here are just little maxims that don't actually further a coherent argument: "Want free college....join the military or get a scholarship," "Life isn't easy, you need to work hard for what you want and cant and should not rely on anyone but yourself to make things happen." Those statements don't say anything about why free public college is a bad idea. We currently have free public high school, and that has worked out tremendously well.
You mention that your kids (who are ten) already have a college fund, and that is an indication of responsibility. Responsibility on the part of whom? Surely not your kids. It's reflective of you, the parent. What are kids who don't have responsible parents supposed to do? The days of being able to put one's self through college waiting tables are gone. College is too expensive.
I also think some people in this thread are discounting the societal value that comes from having a more educated populace.
This is what puzzles me the most from the "I GOT MINE, NOW YOU GET YOURS" crowd. Some who claim, if I understand them correctly, that we will all be better off with less education.
Generally I am very conservative when it comes to taxation and government spending, except when the spending will reap nothing but positive outcomes for everyone. By and large we have an educated, informed and considerate population in the United States. I'm not a scholar on the subject but I have to believe this is the result of the post-WW2 G.I. bill, affordable access to education for all, and the opportunity to discover your potential regardless of ranking on standardized tests or economic class.
Enjoy the day.
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