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Germany did not have free enteprise or free market. They had a protectionist economy.
It was free enterprise within a certain frame work. No, one couldn't just make a living off of anything, especially anything that preyed upon the weakness and vices of people or predation and exploitation of other people. And the Germans did not align themselves or trade with just any country, certainly not the sort of trade we see today with counties that hate us.
One could open a business and that was actually encouraged.
A free market means that the market determines winners and losers. That's it. It's all about supply and demand. The thing is, with free markets, there is free trade. That means you can engage free trade with anybody of any race. It is all about utilitarianism in the market. So under a white nattionalist system, it would fall apart because white people wouldn't necessarily control the economic base. Since white nationalist assume that white people are the best at everything, then they would assume naturally the market would favor them. But hypothetically this may not always be reality. If the free market no longer favors white people, then white nationalism could no exist. Remember in a free market, there is no public education, no public healthcare, and very little government. So people are mostly self govererned in the marketplace. So there is no way there can't be a breakdown in ethno-nationalistic sentiments in a true white nationalistic marketplace.
We see that the free market is often at odds with the idea of American Nationalism. Notice that many Americans are asking for some form of protectionism against the free market in some way. In a true free market it's perfectly acceptable for Americans to be priced out of the labor force by people from Mexico. In a protectionist market, the state protects American jobs from "outsiders".
So nationalism can't sustain itself without protectionism. This is why economics is rarely ever the basis of a white nationalist movement, or a black nationalist movement. Black nationlist tend to favor socialism over protectionism, but there are many pan-Afrikans who don't value socialism and want something that resembes a protectionist model. Look up the "Black Wallstreet Organization" where they're not socialist but value central economic planning.
I'm well aware of what a free market economy is. The point you're missing is this: White Nationalists desire a nation entirely free of non-whites, making the question of engaging/competing in commerce with non-whites a moot point. They desire a free market within their own nation and among their own people. That is, there are no blacks or Mexicans to compete with.
Economics is never the basis of a Nationalist movement because it is a secondary question. First we need to accept that we are all better off without alien people among us. After that, we can argue reasonably about the size/role/cost of government, liberal/conservative, etc.
Secondly, White Nationalists do not assume that "white people are the best at everything". In fact, many will freely acknowledge that North Asians and Jews demonstrate higher levels of intelligence, on average. What virtually all WN's will agree on is that multicultural societies are not stable, and mixing Third World people with First World people is a recipe for disaster. If the current state of the US or history is any indication at all, it would be difficult to argue that they're wrong.
Thirdly, you're talking about a very strict interpretation of a "free market". Public education was a responsibility left to government by our Founding Fathers. Surely you would agree that they were strong(if not purely strict) believers in a free market economy. My point was, and remains, that White Nationalists are not socialist overall. They're largely fiscal and social conservatives.
I'm well aware of what a free market economy is. The point you're missing is this: White Nationalists desire a nation entirely free of non-whites, making the question of engaging/competing in commerce with non-whites a moot point. They desire a free market within their own nation and among their own people. That is, there are no blacks or Mexicans to compete with.
But that's the issue, it can't be free of non-whites. If you can trade or do business with a black or latino nation that undercuts white workers, under a free market that's perfectly acceptable. Hence white nationalism can't be free market. You will always get people outside of your country who can literally undercut you. And since its impossible for any nation to exist in vaccum with our level of technology, you're eventually going to have to trade with other nations.
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Economics is never the basis of a Nationalist movement because it is a secondary question. First we need to accept that we are all better off without alien people among us. After that, we can argue reasonably about the size/role/cost of government, liberal/conservative, etc.
It's not the basis because nationalist movements are all about blaming a third party for your failures. Black nationalist blame white people for everything. White nationalist blame black people for everything. That is the CORE of nationalist movements. You need to unite against a perceived external enemy. This could be foreigner, muslims, black, whites, etc. It doesn't matter, because nationalism is an emotional movement, not a pragamatic or logical one.
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Secondly, White Nationalists do not assume that "white people are the best at everything". In fact, many will freely acknowledge that North Asians and Jews demonstrate higher levels of intelligence, on average. What virtually all WN's will agree on is that multicultural societies are not stable, and mixing Third World people with First World people is a recipe for disaster. If the current state of the US or history is any indication at all, it would be difficult to argue that they're wrong.
No the issue is free trade. Real capitalist were able to build relationships with other countries, and they were able to openly trade with them. The reason why people blame everything of foreigners, because strong protectionist economies are impossible in a system of free trade. Foreigners, as I said before can rightfully undercut and outbid you for certain jobs. People often look at the 1940s and 1950s at the best time in America for white people. This was because we had mostly protectionist economics that benefited white people. When foreigners came in, they started undercutting everyone for jobs, and protected Americans had to start actually competing with people who weren't even necessarily American.
But that's the power of the market, you're never protected. It isn't an issue with foreigners. It's an issue with perceived securities and the feeling that youre entitled to some level of "protection" from the state.
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Thirdly, you're talking about a very strict interpretation of a "free market". Public education was a responsibility left to government by our Founding Fathers. Surely you would agree that they were strong(if not purely strict) believers in a free market economy. My point was, and remains, that White Nationalists are not socialist overall. They're largely fiscal and social conservatives.
You can't have free market but put blockades to the free market. Public education is not capitalistic in any shape or form. The best educators should compete in a free market. Again, this is why I say white nationalist are protectionist, and some even lean towards socialism. Hence economically speaking you're literally on the same spectrum as Black Nationalist. Some black nationalist may be more openly socialist, but again, many believe in some sort of "protected" form of capitalism as well.
There is an ideological overlap between black and white nationalist. Which leads me to believe they both should be considered leftist ideologies.
No leftist believes in an all black nation or extremism of any kind,and I'm saying this as a conservative.
Except maybe feminism,they're pretty extreme about that.
I've studied ethno-nationalism for many years. I've joined pretty extreme white nationalist groups and I've joined extreme black nationalist groups. However for some reason white nationalism is always looked at as a right wing ideology, even though they believe in both protectionism for whites and they believe some forms of socialism. Even white nationalist groups called themselves socialist outright, but are STILL considered right wing and conservative. Common views of white nationalism is...
* Views that white people should separate from other groups
* Diversity has polluted the progress of all white people
* White people should put themselves first over all others
* Some believe there should be an all white nation, where all whites in diaspora should unite as one nation
Both are being mislabeled, they are not right wing or left wing, both of them are right wing socially and both of them are left wing economically. This highlights the flaws of using a one dimension political scale.
Since everyone feel uncomfortable calling them independent, then people just either place them on the far left or the far right.
No leftist believes in an all black nation or extremism of any kind,and I'm saying this as a conservative.
Except maybe feminism,they're pretty extreme about that.
Depends on what you qualify as leftists, but there are plenty of black people who support a black nation in Africa. And they have been pretty successful.
Arguing for a black nation in the US make little sense, just like arguing for a white nation in South Africa. But there are black people who want an apartheid style system that favours black people. They would never use the word apartheid, but the result of their proposals is apartheid.
1) Most political theorists consider political spectrum to be closer to circular than linear, meaning that the extremes tend to meet in the middle, opposite from centrists. That's one reason black nationalists and white nationalists have some things in common.
2) In the United States, white nationalism has, historically, been either a call for status quo or a reactionary call for a return to a system of white power. Status quo is conservatism, and a call for return to historical systems is reactionary. So those get grouped with other conservative or reactionary politics, which are right to far-right. Black nationalism is a call to change the system to something different. Change is more or less what defines whether something is leftist, so that's why black nationalism gets grouped with the far left. It also gets grouped with the far left because it can be seen as an extremist form of a humanist ideal of human rights, which is most often associated with the political left despite the fact that many libertarians are also advocates of human rights but are most often associated with the right because of their economics.
Because white nationalism is viewed as an extreme of what is currently the status quo and is put forth by the majority group. Black nationalism, and anything espoused by someone not in the majority is left wing, by definition!
Even if black nationalism accomplishes what white nationalism wants, we don't want to agree with it, right? Same situations come up for Dems and Repubs - wanting the same thing but for different reasons - still makes it hard to come together because the other side wants it for the WRONG reasons and we don't want to look like we're agreeing with the enemy.
I've studied ethno-nationalism for many years. I've joined pretty extreme white nationalist groups and I've joined extreme black nationalist groups. However for some reason white nationalism is always looked at as a right wing ideology, even though they believe in both protectionism for whites and they believe some forms of socialism. Even white nationalist groups called themselves socialist outright, but are STILL considered right wing and conservative. Common views of white nationalism is...
* Views that white people should separate from other groups
* Diversity has polluted the progress of all white people
* White people should put themselves first over all others
* Some believe there should be an all white nation, where all whites in diaspora should unite as one nation
Black nationalism is characterized by the following...
* Views that black people should separate from other groups
* Diversity has polluted the progress of all black people
* Black people should put themselves first over all others.
* Some belive in Pan-Africanism which states there should be an all black nation for blacks in diaspora.
So how is it that white nationalism is right wing and conservative, but black nationalism is left wing and liberal? Yet the two philosophies are basically identical?
You're looking at it superficially. White nationalism is conservative i.e. going back into the past or keeping the status quo while black nationalism is progressive i.e. changing the present (status quo) without going back into the past.
You're looking at it superficially. White nationalism is conservative i.e. going back into the past or keeping the status quo while black nationalism is progressive i.e. changing the present (status quo) without going back into the past.
Most die-hard White Nationalists actually frown upon conservatism and want something radically new, considering that old ways lead us into the current mess!
Last edited by DownHillAmerica; 07-14-2016 at 06:27 AM..
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