Is diversity really that great considering how much conflict it causes? (ideologies, abortion)
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My parents were Apache and their birth certificates listed "white" as their nationality, as does mine. All through my childhood I thought I was Hispanic because I was labeled as such when I started school..my skin is brown. i spoke spanish, my parents spoke to me in spanish, as their parents, grandparents, great grandparents had to learn spanish to "blend in" to avoid being put in reservations. This labeling and putting us in boxes was started by our government. Why is the question. I hear mexican american, african american, cuban american, etc but what is forgotten is why your ancestors came to America in the first place. Self preservation and to give you a better opportunity than what they had. So if you were born here you are an American, not to mean you are "white or anglo" but that you have freedoms that people in other countries dont have. I am proud to be Apache and just as proud to be an American. The sooner we all think ourselves as Americans, the sooner our country will begin healing. Dont let anyone keep reminding you of where you came from....be proud of where you are now and what you have accomplised here in the land of opportunity.
No, I have conversations about race with people I know because it is a topic that interests me and many of my friends and associates in education. Perhaps you only discuss the topic on forums anonymously. I'm willing to discuss it face to face.
I know that generally it is not capitalized. No news to me. But, personally, since we capitalize Asians, and Latinos, and Europeans, I think it's appropriate to capitalize races. I don't care if you don't like it.
As far as these conversations I have had, I'll give you an example. One day in the school where I was principal, the topic at the math meeting was student test scores, and, more specifically, which groups of students were under-performing. One of the teachers said, in reference to Black students, "Well, you know how they live." And I responded with, "What do you mean by that?" "Well, you know. We all know how Black people live." "Do we? Since you've been teaching here at this school, how many homes of your Black students (which made up about 15% of her classes) have you visited?" "Well, none." "In your 20 years of teaching, how many homes of Black students, or for that matter, Latino students, have you visited?" "Well, none." "Then how do you know how Black people live and how does how they live affect the kid's education?" "Well, I have a Black friend." "Oh, tell me about your Black friend. Have you been to her house? Has she been to your house?" "She's been to my home many times. She's my maid." "Oh. So do you invite her to your house to have dinner, or to make your dinner? And how does your relationship with your maid help you understand why our Black children seem to be struggling at a higher rate?"
And this is the kind of crapola that I have heard from more than one teacher who claims to know why Black children don't perform as well academically in many settings as White children. And all too often, the "friend" turned out to be a casual acquaintance like a maid, or a clerk, or someone like that, but rarely someone that had been invited into their home, or whose home they had visited. And yet, "knowing" these people in such a superficial way someone makes them an expert on the lifestyles of minorities. I find it laughable.
If you want to capitalize it to keep things equal, use 'African-American.' 'White' isn't capitalized, either, so it's not like blacks are being left out.
Oh, I talk race face to face, I find it interesting. What isn't interesting are white social justice warriors who think they KNOW the black/Hispanic/Asian/Middle Eastern experience because they somehow feel sorry for them and suffer from white guilt.
Hey, I'm married to a woman of color, work with different ethnicities and actually have colored friends who've been to my home.
This is an interesting topic. Being Latino and growing up throughout the boroughs of NYC I have experienced so much diversity that I can say it has definitely enhanced my life and given me so many different out looks into different cultures. Cultures more so than race that is. I've also been blessed to travel this beautiful nation and experience cultures and ways of life far different than the urban experience of NYC that has also open my eyes and mind in a great way. So if I had to answer I think diversity is fine but also quite overrated and in some ways I question what this "diversity" means.
Diversity being fine: I think it's fine if overall there's different cultures but they're able to co-exist without trying to shove their beliefs down each others throats. Which is what I feel is the case with Islam nowadays.
Diversity being overrated: I think its overrated in the sense that certain groups of people (the left) think having a diverse group of people is diverse because it represents "harmony". While it's cool that people of different walks of life can co-exist and work together and find a middle or common ground, I think its also quite corny to try and spread diversity for the sake of diversity. Especially when this country has been diverse and multi-cultural pretty much since it's inception. So when the left tries shove diversity down everyone throats, it becomes kind of pointless to me.
Questioning this "diversity": Maybe its just me but when I hear the left talk about "diversity" and "cultural enrichment" nowadays, I feel they speak more about this country accepting Islam and Muslim immigrants and/or refugee's. Its as we have to "accept" the cultural implementation of the Islamic culture. Since Islam is the hot victim hood topic of the left nowadays, they'll fight like all hell to have everyone "embrace" Islam. I'm not saying Muslims shouldn't be here or that they aren't allowed to practice their beliefs. However, it doesn't mean we have to embrace their culture either, at all in fact. These people are coming over here to the west and instead have to understand that this is a completely different culture and way of life so THEY need to embrace that and work around it, not the other way around. If someone wanted to seek the ways of Islam and be under complete Islamic law, wouldn't they move themselves to a country that promotes that? I would think so at least.
Diversity has its benefits and isn't all bad but trying to diversify with cultures like Islam, that just isn't congruent and non-compliant is something that won't work.
This is an interesting topic. Being Latino and growing up throughout the boroughs of NYC I have experienced so much diversity that I can say it has definitely enhanced my life and given me so many different out looks into different cultures. Cultures more so than race that is. I've also been blessed to travel this beautiful nation and experience cultures and ways of life far different than the urban experience of NYC that has also open my eyes and mind in a great way. So if I had to answer I think diversity is fine but also quite overrated and in some ways I question what this "diversity" means.
Diversity being fine: I think it's fine if overall there's different cultures but they're able to co-exist without trying to shove their beliefs down each others throats. Which is what I feel is the case with Islam nowadays.
Diversity being overrated: I think its overrated in the sense that certain groups of people (the left) think having a diverse group of people is diverse because it represents "harmony". While it's cool that people of different walks of life can co-exist and work together and find a middle or common ground, I think its also quite corny to try and spread diversity for the sake of diversity. Especially when this country has been diverse and multi-cultural pretty much since it's inception. So when the left tries shove diversity down everyone throats, it becomes kind of pointless to me.
Questioning this "diversity": Maybe its just me but when I hear the left talk about "diversity" and "cultural enrichment" nowadays, I feel they speak more about this country accepting Islam and Muslim immigrants and/or refugee's. Its as we have to "accept" the cultural implementation of the Islamic culture. Since Islam is the hot victim hood topic of the left nowadays, they'll fight like all hell to have everyone "embrace" Islam. I'm not saying Muslims shouldn't be here or that they aren't allowed to practice their beliefs. However, it doesn't mean we have to embrace their culture either, at all in fact. These people are coming over here to the west and instead have to understand that this is a completely different culture and way of life so THEY need to embrace that and work around it, not the other way around. If someone wanted to seek the ways of Islam and be under complete Islamic law, wouldn't they move themselves to a country that promotes that? I would think so at least.
Diversity has its benefits and isn't all bad but trying to diversify with cultures like Islam, that just isn't congruent and non-compliant is something that won't work.
The constant mention of the left in this case seems stem from the desire to turn this into political discussion. If one wants to go down this route the right wants to single out Islam for starters. The big issue is the Constitution which protects the freedom of religion. If people don't want Muslims here then they would have to change that part of the Constitution. That is the crux of the issue.
It's also funny how no one talks about the hundreds of Muslim families living in this country for decades yet have no problem observing our laws and customs.
The constant mention of the left in this case seems stem from the desire to turn this into political discussion. If one wants to go down this route the right wants to single out Islam for starters. The big issue is the Constitution which protects the freedom of religion. If people don't want Muslims here then they would have to change that part of the Constitution. That is the crux of the issue.
It's also funny how no one talks about the hundreds of Muslim families living in this country for decades yet have no problem observing our laws and customs.
Radical Islam is an issue not Islam itself.
Well, I'm not a right winger just so you know. And I'm not denying that there's Muslims who live in the west who obey the law of the land and live peaceful lives. I know many who do. However, to act as if there's not a problem with Islam, radical or not is naive. Yeah, we can talk about other religions but right now the problems of Islam constantly get swept under the rug by the left. The left whom I USED to align myself with, cannot ever give an honest criticism of Islam without saying "well all religions have their fault". Let me say, I am NOT religious but the left constantly criticises Christianity in the west which is fair, fine, whatever to me. However, when it comes to Islam they let their PC bias get in the way and that ruins EVERYTHING.
The simple fact is, whever Islam is, there's conflict of some kind and now it's spreading to the west and it's spreading out of hand. The left aligns themselves with a culture and ideology that does NOT have their best interest in mind at all. If the left fear far right wingers, they have no clue how bad radical Islam has it in for them.
Well, I'm not a right winger just so you know. And I'm not denying that there's Muslims who live in the west who obey the law of the land and live peaceful lives. I know many who do. However, to act as if there's not a problem with Islam, radical or not is naive. Yeah, we can talk about other religions but right now the problems of Islam constantly get swept under the rug by the left. The left whom I USED to align myself with, cannot ever give an honest criticism of Islam without saying "well all religions have their fault". Let me say, I am NOT religious but the left constantly criticises Christianity in the west which is fair, fine, whatever to me. However, when it comes to Islam they let their PC bias get in the way and that ruins EVERYTHING.
The simple fact is, whever Islam is, there's conflict of some kind and now it's spreading to the west and it's spreading out of hand. The left aligns themselves with a culture and ideology that does NOT have their best interest in mind at all. If the left fear far right wingers, they have no clue how bad radical Islam has it in for them.
Whether your a right winger or not constant use of the left turns this into a political discussion. And as I said before this is about the Constitution protecting freedom of religion. If Islam in itself bothers people then they should discuss striking passages related to religious freedoms from the Constitution.
Homogenous nations might have less conflict and more unity; and they probably did before mass media and the internet. However, there would be less growth and fewer new ideas.
This. Studies of businesses and corporations in the US show that diversity in the decision-making echelon results in better management, more growth, etc.
Besides, OP, diversity is here to stay. It's not like anything can be done about it....ya know? Or did you have a proposal?
Well, I'm not a right winger just so you know. And I'm not denying that there's Muslims who live in the west who obey the law of the land and live peaceful lives. I know many who do. However, to act as if there's not a problem with Islam, radical or not is naive. Yeah, we can talk about other religions but right now the problems of Islam constantly get swept under the rug by the left. The left whom I USED to align myself with, cannot ever give an honest criticism of Islam without saying "well all religions have their fault". Let me say, I am NOT religious but the left constantly criticises Christianity in the west which is fair, fine, whatever to me. However, when it comes to Islam they let their PC bias get in the way and that ruins EVERYTHING.
The simple fact is, whever Islam is, there's conflict of some kind and now it's spreading to the west and it's spreading out of hand. The left aligns themselves with a culture and ideology that does NOT have their best interest in mind at all. If the left fear far right wingers, they have no clue how bad radical Islam has it in for them.
The OP's topic is not an excuse to let fire on one's trouble-maker minority-du-jour. Let's not let the thread devolve into a cacophony of separate harangues and bashing.
What I am saying isn't that complex. Many people in this thread have repeatedly said that people should forget about race and just fit in. And they seem to focus on African-Americans and Latino-Americans, and, most often, people of color. I am pointing out that White Germans and other White ethnic groups have not just fit in. They have had and continue to have organizations and events that separate their cultural background from the American-culture.
Another mostly good post from you, but my point for myself and many others of mixed and at least mostly White heritage is that I don't identify, and have not joined any group that identifies, with any one particular ancestry, and neither did my parents or grandparents, so far as I know. In our case, it would be misleading and possibly on the borderline of dishonesty, as I am not solely German-American, Scottish-American, or anything else. In fact, I am not even 50% of any one particular national ancestry; as I said, I am a "mutt" (my husband describes his family as Heinz 57 varieties). Btw, my husband has great nieces who are have grandparents with Japanese, Mexican, Filipino, and Black ancestry in addition to the "Heinz 57" European mix -- so how would you describe them except as "Mixed-American", which as I said, most Americans are.
My point, like it or not, is that most Americans are not just German-American, African-American, or any other (one area)-hyphen-American. And that includes most Blacks. The only possible (probable?) exception are Latinos and Middle-Easterners and some others of recent immigration.
Last edited by katharsis; 04-01-2017 at 11:19 AM..
The constant mention of the left in this case seems stem from the desire to turn this into political discussion. If one wants to go down this route the right wants to single out Islam for starters. The big issue is the Constitution which protects the freedom of religion. If people don't want Muslims here then they would have to change that part of the Constitution. That is the crux of the issue.
It's also funny how no one talks about the hundreds of Muslim families living in this country for decades yet have no problem observing our laws and customs.
Radical Islam is an issue not Islam itself.
(last sentence)
But why did so many Muslims get concerned if bib-Laden received a proper Muslim burial ?
On one hand, Muslims proclaim bin-Laden's religion had nothing to do with theirs.
But yet they insisted he got a proper Muslim burial ?
If a radical Catholic blew up abortion clinics constantly and held training camps on how to do it and how to kill abortion doctors, I doubt the Pope would be insisting he got a proper Catholic burial.
I doubt other Catholics would be insisting either.
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